:-/

http://www.pressconnects.com/article/20090224/NEWS01/902240343&referrer=FRONTPAGECAROUSEL

Quote :

"President Barack Obama never had a helicopter, which he says might explain why he's perfectly happy with the current White House fleet and doesn't need a more costly one. Advertisement At the conclusion of a fiscal summit Monday, Obama faced questions from Republican and Democratic lawmakers, including his former presidential rival, Sen. John McCain. McCain bemoaned cost overruns in military procurement. The new fleet of 28 Marine One helicopters being built by Lockheed Martin Corp. -- now over budget at $11.2 billion -- will cost more than Air Force One. The project is being directed from Lockheed's Owego plant, which hired hundreds of new staff members to gear up for the project four years ago. Obama said the helicopter he has now seems adequate, adding that he never had a helicopter before and "maybe I've been deprived and I didn't know it." Obama said he has already talked to Defense Secretary Robert Gates about reviewing the program and its ballooning costs. "It is an example of the procurement process gone amok, and we're going to have to fix it," Obama said. The Navy -- which is in charge of overseeing the helicopter program -- reported to Congress in January that its price tag had nearly doubled. That notification triggered a formal process mandating the program be re-certified as a national security requirement by senior Pentagon leadership. The Navy waited nearly a year before formally disclosing the information to lawmakers as it sought to find ways to keep the program within budget. Those efforts failed. Gates already has warned of tough cuts in the upcoming fiscal 2010 budget as the Pentagon faces the pressure of paying for two wars during a recession. Lockheed Martin spokesman Troy Scully said in a statement, "We are committed to the program's success and are confident we can deliver the required number of helicopters compliant with the specifications that emerge from the ongoing review." The helicopter, which will be outfitted with communications equipment, anti-missile defenses and hardened hulls, is dubbed Marine One whenever the president is on board. The aircraft is expected to be similar to Air Force One, unlike the 30-year-old helicopters they would replace."

2/24/2009 6:54:17 PM

Wouldn't playing Choplifter be cheaper?

2/24/2009 6:55:05 PM

i dont know why he needs 28, but im all for him having a bad ass helicopter so no one tries to take him out

2/24/2009 6:55:54 PM

k

2/24/2009 6:57:07 PM

^^you know the air force fleet consists of approximately 10-12 jets of varying sizes right? the president only flies on air force one but the entire cabinet/senior staff use the planes and helicopters for presidential business

2/24/2009 7:10:24 PM

Quote :

"i dont know why he needs 28, but im all for him having a bad ass helicopter so no one tries to take him out"

well, some are for training purposes. the helicopters also fly in tandem, so the enemy doesn't know which helicopter he's on (not all 28 though). Also, the pres. isn't the only one that uses them...other politicians do as well.

traditionally, the helicopter fleet is usually 20+

2/24/2009 7:11:22 PM

Quote :

"so the enemy doesn't know which helicopter he's on"

ehh, not exactly. i mean, that's probably part of it, but really if someone is going to bring down Marine One they can probably go ahead and bring down 2 of 'em.

it's more for if something breaks on one of them and it's downed for repair and the pres. needs to get back from where ever he happens to be.

[Edited on February 24, 2009 at 7:41 PM. Reason : ,]

2/24/2009 7:39:57 PM

there was a really cool special on the national geographic channel recently that was about air force one and marine one - highly recommend it

2/24/2009 7:41:31 PM

they actually fly 3 choppers when the president is using them, 2 are decoys...i see them all the time here innnnnnnnnnnnnnn




DCDCDCDCDCDCDCDCDC

2/24/2009 7:43:13 PM

Quote :

"you know the air force fleet consists of approximately 10-12 jets of varying sizes right? the president only flies on air force one but the entire cabinet/senior staff use the planes and helicopters for presidential business"

i know that, i was just talking about the order that the government put in here

2/24/2009 7:46:31 PM

but that explains it pretty clearly

multiple high priority individuals use this fleet

they fly over my house daily...president bush and obama are busy guys but they dont get around that much

they need that many for maint/personnel purposes

2/24/2009 7:48:31 PM

^^

16th st represent!

2/24/2009 7:48:43 PM

its true. aircraft can be bitches and components can break if you look at them wrong. if the pres needs to be somewhere he's got to have at least 3 up helos.

2/24/2009 7:50:07 PM

i remember you saying that you were contemplating voting for obama for just this reason

2/24/2009 7:54:08 PM

redundancy is also a pretty big part of it


anyway, there are a lot of people up here pretty pissed off right now...

aha, Lockheed hired about 700 people over the past few years JUST to work on this one program.

2/24/2009 8:11:14 PM

would be the most expensive helicopter ever built--sounds apropos for the US

2/24/2009 8:25:52 PM

I think one of the big issues is that the current fleet is like 30 years old....and isn't capable of keeping up with the demands of the presidential helos.
It's been basically abandoned by the military because it's so [old]

2/24/2009 8:28:13 PM

holy crap

choplifter

i need to find that now

2/24/2009 8:28:59 PM

and of course they should go from obsolete to the most expensive, God forbid there be some sort of compromise between cost and efficacy

2/24/2009 8:32:12 PM

well, there's a bit more to it than that which added to the costs. not quite that simple

2/24/2009 8:33:49 PM

^^most of the cost overruns probably have nothing to do with the technology onboard

2/24/2009 8:38:28 PM

the over budget concerns have more to do with 'creep' actually

though, the technology is super l33t

2/24/2009 8:39:51 PM

lol

bad news for you????

2/24/2009 8:40:52 PM

Quote :

"most of the cost overruns probably have nothing to do with the technology onboard"

i understand that the pentagon funding games tend to drive up costs but surely there has to be an existing platform that's adaptable enough to serve the purpose without the $40million price tag

2/24/2009 8:44:48 PM

^^ aha, that's a mixed question. can't really be answered with a yes or no

^ you don't know what you're talking about, do you?

2/24/2009 8:45:02 PM

that depends on what you mean

2/24/2009 8:51:01 PM

I'll take that as a no

2/24/2009 8:53:28 PM

take it however you like

2/24/2009 8:57:15 PM

right then...

Quote :

"the over budget concerns have more to do with 'creep'"

2/24/2009 9:03:45 PM

Quote :

"WHOLESALE PRESIDENTIAL HELICOPTERS"

i wonder if they're going to destroy the old fleet

2/24/2009 9:09:28 PM

doubtful
they'll probably sell the old fleet to other countries

2/24/2009 9:10:40 PM

well they probably have certain security measures they'd like to keep a secret ?_?

2/24/2009 9:13:57 PM

this is true
but vast majority of the integrated hardware and software can be taken out.

just sell the 'shell' to someone else. or sell the old fleet back to a private defense contractor. they'll do something with it like make a UAV or something

2/24/2009 9:15:57 PM

ill buy one

2/24/2009 9:28:11 PM

you, me, or anyone else on here couldn't afford to safely keep that shit in the air for 3 seconds

2/24/2009 9:33:59 PM

safety is overrated

2/24/2009 9:34:33 PM

haha, I know you're joking
but always remember....you can't eject from a helo!!1

2/24/2009 9:39:31 PM

thats not what that james bond movie showed me

2/24/2009 9:39:59 PM

I actually met a pilot a while ago that successfully jumped out of a crashing helo.

but

then again, I don't meet many hopelessly crippled or deceased pilots...

2/24/2009 9:43:41 PM

Quote :

"but always remember....you can't eject from a helo!!1"

FALSE

The Russian Havoc has an ejection seat. And the US Army did testing in the 70's using goats....

A few herds later they decided that it wa safer to build crash absorption rather than ejection.

(side note: met a guy who was on that project just last week, he told some funny not peta worthy stories!)

[Edited on February 24, 2009 at 9:50 PM. Reason : .]

2/24/2009 9:48:11 PM

haha, ok ok ok
I guess anything is possible

I don't see that as a reliable and feasible option though

2/24/2009 9:50:17 PM

Quote :

"i understand that the pentagon funding games tend to drive up costs but surely there has to be an existing platform that's adaptable enough to serve the purpose without the $40million price tag"

Maybe. But the argument is partially the age of these aircraft and the superiority, especially with regard to survivability, of some of the newer designs. The newest (non-UAV) rotary wing aircraft in the DoD inventory is the V-22. Beyond safety, there are issues with its size to perform as a Marine One aircraft.


The only utility or cargo aircraft currently in the DoD inventory that isn't a Vietnam-era design is the UH-60, and it is a bit small for Marine One duty.


^^ the Havoc's seat is also completely automatic. It ejects the pilot when it determines that the aircraft is unflyable.

2/24/2009 11:04:06 PM

I think my biggest issues with this are

1) President Obama wouldn't even really be using these helos. he will be out of office by then. this plan os for the future.

2) the comparison of price to air force 1 is silly. air force 1 was built in the 80's. to build a brand new air force 1 with current technology would be more expensive than this.

[Edited on February 25, 2009 at 10:11 AM. Reason : g]

2/25/2009 10:00:24 AM

dammit

i caught the choplifter bug too

2/25/2009 10:17:26 AM

Gates announced that he plans to cut this program yesterday. a lot of people around here are going to loose their jobs now

4/7/2009 12:39:38 PM

That sucks. After they told the DoD they were going to have to cut back on programs all 60 some of the jobs I was told would be created at the Norfolk Naval shipyard got canned (it was for entry level engineers to go through a 6 month training program and carry on the shipyard program while the previous generation of engineers was retiring/dying out/whatever you want to call it).

He's not going to make many friends at this rate, promising to create jobs while cutting out a lot of government programs which created lots of jobs. In a sense it's good that he wants more people to be privately employed I guess (dumping government money into infrastructure spending, somewhat).

4/7/2009 1:40:44 PM

^no, it's actually looking like he's just full of shit

4/7/2009 1:49:25 PM

We should just use that same money to retrofit sweet rims onto the existing fleet. Leftover funds can be used to put little tvs in the backs of the back seat headrests.

4/7/2009 2:16:44 PM

The Navy issued a stop work order on the program yesterday around 5:00pm :-/

5/16/2009 9:23:58 AM

the gov't always loves friday afternoon press releases.

5/16/2009 9:24:45 AM