the 49th post never gets read

the gov't always loves friday afternoon press releases

5/16/2009 9:25:11 AM

well, yeah...

I think they try to announce big things on friday after stock markets close...so everyone has the weekend to mull over what happened, and can make their decisions monday mourning

5/16/2009 9:27:00 AM

progra terminated last night

6/2/2009 1:19:16 PM

i'm cool with this

i mean, hell, with the technology we have now there's no need for him to be going anywhere, really.

6/2/2009 1:21:38 PM

that's retarded

anyway, they're probably going to have another round of layoffs here in the next two weeks or so. Most likely, around 800 people will lose their jobs.

6/2/2009 1:26:54 PM

i shoulda put a face to show i was kidding, i guess

[Edited on June 2, 2009 at 1:29 PM. Reason : but you must admit there's no essential job he can't do over video conference]

6/2/2009 1:29:07 PM

helicopter programs are never sexy enough to keep funding. It is like the OH-58 pilots in the Army:

- Hey guys, we're going to give you this really neat new helicopter. It is called the Comanche, its practically stealth, flies 60mph sideways, it's pretty awesome!
- Sweet! When do we get it?
- Nah, I'm just kidding, but really, we'll give you an ARH based on the same 1960s design but updated for urban conflict. It is no Comanche, but its pretty cool.
- That's cool, when do we get it?
- Just kidding again. Seriously, you'll all be UAV drivers by the end of the decade.


The 58D production line has been shut down for years and the Army is wrecking / crashing so many in Iraq that they're pulling maintenance training aircraft that haven't flown in 13 years and re-assembling them into operational air-frames.


Oh well.

6/2/2009 1:42:10 PM

Wow. I didn't know they were losing so many in Iraq.

6/2/2009 1:45:19 PM

so now the question is how much money did we waste on this?

with all the stingers running around i'm surprised they didn't keep the program...

6/2/2009 2:22:41 PM

Quote :

"you must admit there's no essential job he can't do over video conference"

Except you can't give some trifflin ass prime minister the stink eye over iChat.

6/2/2009 2:24:08 PM

^^^^ I haven't done any research on it as a weapons platform, but the Comanche sure looks badass. When I was in Air Cav, I would've liked to have seen it protecting our flank--along with the Apaches, of course.

6/2/2009 4:34:25 PM

i clicked this thread hoping to see candy paint and blades on a helicopter

6/2/2009 4:35:43 PM

i'm glad they are cutting spending....sure beats raising taxes again. looks like obama might have some redeaming qualities just yet...

6/2/2009 4:41:42 PM

Well the Comanche is as dead in the water as the VH-71 is.


Truthfully, for it's time, the AH-56 Cheyenne was even more impressive:

6/2/2009 4:43:38 PM

^ Hmm. The Cheyenne also looks badass--it reminds me of the Russian Hind.

6/2/2009 4:52:47 PM

^^ the Star Wars style, rotating gunners seat is badass!

6/2/2009 5:12:30 PM

^^

6/2/2009 5:22:13 PM

If you want sheer ginormism in helicopters, check out the Mi-26.



(yes, that is a Hind to the right)

6/2/2009 5:41:17 PM

Whoa! That's bigger than a Shithook.

6/2/2009 5:43:10 PM

Is it just me or do those blades look longer then the tail portion of the Helicopter, that things is fucking huge.


(I assume its just the angle)

6/2/2009 5:45:41 PM

cutting spending? probably not saving as much as you might think.
1. tax payers have already basically paid for the helos already built....that the government is now not going to use

2. the government has now pretty much bought 8 helos to sit in a warehouse. so they'll probably sell them for a lot less than they bought them for

3. the government will also now have to pay a pretty hefty fucking fine for essentially breaking a contract

4. there will be a recompetition in the next few years for a helo to serve this very same purpose


this was just an all around poorly thought out decision.
I personally put most of the blame on the navy for thinking tax payers had bottomless pockets. after we won the contract, they kept changing requirements (adding things on) as technology advanced (scope creep). we told them that adding additional requirements would raise the total cost of the fleet. their response? do it anyway.
years later, we're over budget

surprise surprise

the program gets terminated

6/2/2009 5:57:12 PM

in truth, that is how DoD contracts work. Bids are put in, the lowest bid (a deliberate under-bid) wins, delays are programmed in (contractors only have jobs as long as the project is under development), everybody wants to hang more shit on said object and then, if the manufacturing of said project is spread across enough states, it'll survive. If it is concentrated in too few. It'll fail.

More Mi-26

6/2/2009 6:12:59 PM

Yeah, unfortunately, the DoD procurement process is fatally flawed. I really think that politics played a big part in this too...

As in when this was in the proposal stage, NY's senator was Clinton...who actually went to bat to win this thing over the incumbent, Sikorsky.
The current regime happens to have closer ties to conneticut, where Sikorsky is based. We'll just have to see how this recompete goes...

It just sucks so bad because we were under contract, and not only meeting all requirements, but surpassing them.

I just pray that nothing happens to the current presidential helo fleet. Those shits are soooooo freaking old.

6/2/2009 6:32:10 PM

6/2/2009 6:47:53 PM

There should be some sort of federal law enforcing DOT contracts which ensures that programs near-completion or at a certain stage of prototyping must undergo a full financial evaluation by an independent committee to determine the money that will have already been lost by ending the program now, the extra money that will have to be spent for ending the program now and breaking the contract (i.e. severance pay for workers, figuring out what to do with your prototypes you just bought), the amount of money it is estimated to take to rebid the project 10 years down the road (i.e. if aluminum prices had gone up 6-9% every year above the average rate of inflation they could project what that or other materials could cost in the future to figure out if it's best to get it while the gettin's good), and how much money was left to be pumped into the project for its completion.

From there they'd have to pick whatever option is lowest cost (i.e. finish project, or rebid project later on). More or less that would basically be a total ban on ending projects that were in the late development stage. I imagine though if they were dealing with a really bad company that ran up costs 50% after the fact this might help break a large contract before it reaches a mass-production stage that might really cost the gubmint a lot of money.

Sucks that it cost so many jobs. I'm moving to that area soon and I can imagine that's going to be very suck for those folks. Expensive housing + 800 engineers & workers on market + middle of recession = Oh fuck.

[Edited on June 2, 2009 at 7:16 PM. Reason : I'm moving to that area assuming that area is your area EMCE. ]

6/2/2009 7:15:44 PM

Mi-12 > Mi-26
though it never made it to production

6/2/2009 8:43:42 PM

well, my area is upstate NY. it's really a small town...as you might imagine, not a ton of jobs up here (professionals).
so a loss of jobs of this magnitude is huge up here. before we were in this area, there was IBM.
this area really can't afford to lose 800 people who make fat ass paychecks and turn around to dump that into the economy...

6/2/2009 9:22:34 PM

how secure do you feel your job is now?

6/2/2009 9:23:31 PM

fairly secure...hope I'm not jinxing myself...

Most of the people they're letting go have nothing to do at work...charging overhead

I'm currently busy....statused at 120%, or doing the job of 1.2 people. Plus I have a specialty job code that isn't too common around my facility

6/2/2009 11:22:43 PM

Quote :

"he president only flies on air force one"

by definition

[Edited on June 3, 2009 at 7:22 AM. Reason : 1]

6/3/2009 7:22:42 AM

Quote :

"well, my area is upstate NY. it's really a small town...as you might imagine, not a ton of jobs up here (professionals). so a loss of jobs of this magnitude is huge up here. before we were in this area, there was IBM. this area really can't afford to lose 800 people who make fat ass paychecks and turn around to dump that into the economy..."

Aha, my bad I thought you were in the Hampton Roads area.

Better for them to lose the job up there than elsewhere, though they'll have to move. Their unemployment checks will go farther...

Still sucks though and that'll probably result in more businesses closing. :/ Especially if there's any corporate/chain restaurants around there which usually rely on white-collar workers.

6/3/2009 8:33:42 AM

If I had the money, I'd probably buy this--and the 1960s Batmobile. Don't worry, I'd give some to charity, too.

6/3/2009 6:56:14 PM

They announced today that they plan to lay off an additional 750 people, bringing the grand total to around 1000 just from my facility

blows

6/16/2009 10:22:48 PM

The government has an interesting way of throwing money away, sometimes.

6/16/2009 10:34:06 PM

funny thing is, they claim they're saving money by doing this...

but with contract termination fees, the price of keeping their old existing Sikorsky aircraft from crashing and burning, the proposal costs in the future, the costs of a new contract in the future, etc...

they WELL exceed what it would have cost for them to finish this contract. Or in the least, take the deal LM was going to cut for them to just give them more increment 1 helos

this isn't even factoring in the $$ taxpayers are going to be paying in unemployment for the (1000-X employees that found jobs) that left, and/or are going to leave my facility within the next 90 days

6/16/2009 10:43:37 PM

the taxpayers don't pay unemployment

6/16/2009 10:44:44 PM

my B

I meant unemployment in a different way.
I don't know if it's public knowledge yet, so I'll refrain from explaining...

6/16/2009 10:45:53 PM

i might be wrong

6/16/2009 10:46:58 PM

read edit
PM sent

6/16/2009 10:47:58 PM

now i understand

damn

6/16/2009 10:51:22 PM

bttt?

Quote :

"Senator Charles Schumer says there's reason to believe Lockheed Martin's VH-71 helicopter won't face the same fate as the F-22 fighter plane program President Obama recently shot down. "We have lots of other fighters," he said. "The VH-71 is unique." Schumer says the copters protect the president and are used frequently, while F-22s aren't often used by soldiers in Iraq and Afghanistan. Even though Obama has issued a veto advisory on funding for the VH-71s, Schumer says this is different from the veto threat placed on the F-22s. "What the president issued was the second level. It wasn't good that he issued it, believe me, but it could've been worse," Schumer said. Lockheed Martin says it plans to continue shutting down the VH-71 program until it receives word of any changes from Washington, but local officials say having Schumer's support gives them reason to be optimistic. The senator praised grassroots efforts to save the program. "I asked him, I said, 'Senator, what can we do? What can we do to help? He said, 'Keep writing, keep putting the pressure on," said Martha Sauerbrey, president and CEO of the Tioga County Chamber of Commerce. Schumer says that's what he'll be doing in Washington -- working to save the program, although no one connected with the Obama administration has pledged definite support. "I've said, 'Look: we know your position, but don't stand in the way if we prevail.' They haven't said, 'yes,' they haven't said, 'no,'" said Schumer. Schumer says the question of VH-71's fate will be resolved by October 1 -- the day the country's new budget is put into effect."

http://www.wicz.com/news2005/viewarticle.asp?a=9913

8/9/2009 3:09:47 PM

What kind of work do you do emce? And, are you across the river from Burlington, VT?

8/9/2009 3:42:52 PM

he's going to run up in here touting it's super duper classified and he's only 1 of 4 people that do what he does

8/9/2009 4:02:41 PM

doubtful

8/9/2009 4:31:45 PM

just because it isn't classified doesn't mean it isn't a trade secret that has no business on TWW.

8/9/2009 4:35:01 PM

no shit

8/9/2009 4:37:20 PM

Quote :

"What kind of work do you do emce? And, are you across the river from Burlington, VT?"

I am HFE. I do human factors work in support of our programs, vehicles, and manned and unmanned aircraft; such as crew systems management, crew task loading, design/layout of airborne and tactical wheeled vehicle cockpits, user juries, simulations, ergonomics, usability, etc...
Also do some systems safety work for some programs, determining compliance with standards, airworthiness, and roadworthiness. I'm really just learning this though

no, not anywhere near Virginia except for travel

8/9/2009 4:45:26 PM

VT is Vermont, dawg.

8/9/2009 8:18:54 PM

oh dag, I assumed he meant Virginia Tech....no wonder it made absolutely no sense in way I was reading it

the answer still remains 'No'

8/9/2009 8:23:12 PM

set em up

8/11/2009 2:14:28 AM