page tew

10/8/2009 1:32:29 AM

11 servings of grain, obesity never tasted so good

10/8/2009 7:17:31 AM

According to the OP, you and your family were arguing about why lower income families tend to eat unhealthy compared to higher income families:

Quote :

"So I'm at the beach with the relatives and I got into an argument about why lower income families tend to eat unhealthy compared to higher income families."

You argued healthier food costs more. They argued a lack of education on how to eat healthy.

Quote :

"My point was that it costs more to eat healthier foods. Their point was you can eat just as healthy with the same amount of money and that low income families were simply eating junk food because of a lack of education and not being informed about how to eat healthy. "

To be fair, both you and your family are correct. You're both just not arguing your points in the right ways.

Healthy food can be very expensive if you're an idiot and don't know how to shop for it. Anything labeled Organic or bought from a natural food store like Whole Foods is going to rape your wallet compared to something that isn't Organic or bought from Food Lion.

However, something doesn't have to be Organic or from Whole Foods to be healthy. Healthy food items do exist and are just as inexpensive as their unhealthy counterparts. You as a consumer have to know what to get and where to get it. Examples: Cans of beans, corn, veggies? You can buy those for ~$0.99 or less if you shop intelligently. Chicken breasts? You can get a bulk pack on sale for ~$7 if not less. Use one for a meal and freeze the rest to use later. Buy in bulk, or at the farmers market. Freeze stuff so you can use it later. Spend time in the kitchen actually cooking meals.

Both you are your family are trying to pin a single tail on the unhealthy eating donkey, when in reality it has a bunch of tails. What about being fucking lazy as an excuse for making unhealthy eating choices? I don't go get a #6 biggie sized from Wendys because I don't know how to fix anything else. It's because I'm feeling lazy and I don't WANT to fix anything. I think there is plenty of evidence in the world that low-income families have a tendency towards laziness and underachieving. What about portion size? It takes someone with self-discipline and knowledge to know how much is really appropriate to eat in one sitting. Do you think lower income families are more likely to know how much to eat in one sitting compared to their higher income brethren?

IMO, it comes down to making good choices. Choose to learn what to buy, where to buy it on the cheap, how to fix it and how much of it to eat in a sitting. Anyone has the ability to eat healthily and cheaply, they just have to chose to do so.


[Edited on October 8, 2009 at 8:14 AM. Reason : .]

10/8/2009 8:12:51 AM

god damn there are some dumbfucks on this site, some of you people will argue about anything

10/8/2009 8:15:00 AM

if you want to eat healthy on a budget you have to do a few things....

- shop around and make good use of the farmers market

- grow a garden (huge money saver and nothing better then fresh veggies)

- hunt (eat wild game that contain no additives and its fun too)

10/8/2009 8:43:17 AM

i try my best not to eat processed and packaged foods, sticking as exclusively as possible to fresh fruits, veggies, and butchered meats.

If i'm frugal, my monthly grocery bill averages to about $9-10/day.

At this stage in my life, i do not think that's high.

For many, I can totally understand how that'd be impossible, esp. if an entire family was trying to live off my salary alone.

on the other hand, doing the OPs argument by $/calorie seems silly.. you'd need to compare on some other scale than calorie.

10/8/2009 8:50:27 AM

I just hunt and eat out of my garden

I haven't been to a grocery store or restaurant in 6 months, and I couldn't be happier

10/8/2009 9:03:24 AM

In a lot of poorer urban areas they don't even have easy access to grocery stores.

10/8/2009 9:05:26 AM

Hell, they don't even have a decent grocery store in downtown Raleigh.

10/8/2009 9:06:36 AM

There are so many factors you have to look at, such as the availability of fresh produce, food stamps and the food stamp cycle, education, income, etc.

Generally speaking, energy dense foods do cost less:



Here's two really good articles about it:

http://www.hpclearinghouse.ca/pdf/obesitydietssocial.pdf

http://www.adajournal.org/article/PIIS0002822307016161/fulltext

[Edited on October 8, 2009 at 9:12 AM. Reason : knowledge yo]

10/8/2009 9:07:12 AM

I see tons of opinions but no facts.


reference yourself plz kkthnxu

10/8/2009 11:47:04 AM

two words

FARMER'S MARKET

i go almost weekly and for less than $20 have vegetables for every meal

10/8/2009 12:13:53 PM

not every town has a farmer's market though

10/8/2009 1:39:35 PM

Eating healthy does not cost more.

Eating pre-packaged healthy food costs more.

Do you want to know what is really the cheapest food? A huge sack of whole grain rice, a huge sack of beans, and vegetables either grown by yourself or from the farmer's market.

There's a reason people in Africa can survive on $5 a month.

The problem is that you lazy fucks want your pre-packaged salads and your sushi and your naked juices and your smoothies and then you whine when it costs a lot of money.

This family spends $341.98 per week on food:



This family spends $1.23 per week on food:



http://www.time.com/time/photogallery/0,29307,1626519,00.html


[Edited on October 8, 2009 at 1:43 PM. Reason : ]

10/8/2009 1:42:02 PM

^thats a baddass set of photos


"Food expenditure for one week: 1,862.78 Mexican Pesos or $189.09"



"Food expenditure for one week: 387.85 Egyptian Pounds or $68.53"rtyt

look at all those fruits and veggies!



[Edited on October 8, 2009 at 1:49 PM. Reason : tyrt]

10/8/2009 1:44:58 PM

i dunno i saved a lot of money yesterday at the grocery and pretty much everything i bought (sans soda) was "healthy"

10/8/2009 1:49:45 PM

the people in these pictures eat a fuck ton of food

10/8/2009 1:54:20 PM

The text is a bit misleading. The photos are a month's worth of food, I believe.

10/8/2009 1:55:51 PM

ok well that makes a lot more sense

10/8/2009 1:57:13 PM

No way it is a months worth

Those blacks at the top only have one KFC plate

[Edited on October 8, 2009 at 1:59 PM. Reason : x]

10/8/2009 1:59:03 PM

Quote :

"Eating healthy does not cost more."

in the US, yes it does.

according to the journal of the american dietetic association, junk foods cost less than fruits and vegetables and are less impacted by inflation.

the studies I referenced above found that energy-dense foods (i.e. junk food) cost ~$2 per 1000 calories, compared with ~$18 per 1000 calories for low-energy nutritious foods (i.e. fruits and vegs).

I'm not saying that it's impossible to eat healthy on a budget, but for many low-income families it's just not really an option.

[Edited on October 8, 2009 at 2:15 PM. Reason : .]

10/8/2009 2:07:52 PM

Quote :

"No way it is a months worth Those blacks at the top only have one KFC plate"

lolololololol

slave ftw

10/8/2009 2:14:20 PM

Of course it's an option, people are just lazy.

Instead of getting this, which would require cooking it and cleaning it and oh god I'm so lazy:

50 lb. bag of long grain rice? $73.99 - http://www.amazon.com/Long-Grain-Brown-Rice-Pound/dp/B0007NKC7Q/

Cost per pound? $1.48

They decide to get this:

12 packages of 8.8oz Uncle Ben's "Instant" Long grain rice? $59.95 - http://www.amazon.com/Uncle-Bens-Ready-8-8-Ounce-Pouches/dp/B000KOQJ4C/

Cost per pound? $9.08

Despite American Exceptionalism, people around the rest of world do survive quite well eating mostly grains, a few vegetables, and very little meat per week.

10/8/2009 2:16:16 PM

i bet this food is the most delicious

10/8/2009 2:17:43 PM

thought it was necessary for this thread

10/8/2009 3:34:29 PM

damn that looks freakin delicious

10/8/2009 3:35:13 PM

Quote :

"Of course it's an option, people are just lazy. Instead of getting this, which would require cooking it and cleaning it and oh god I'm so lazy:"

You guys have to realize i'm not saying you can't eat healthy for really cheap i'm saying on a scientific basis nutritional food cost more per calorie than "empty" calories.

I've discussed this with quite a few people and after doing some research even if you use the beans/rice argument the healthier food will always be more expensive.

Again you can get your caloric intake from donuts or Ramon noodles ($.10) which provide around 400 calories a serving for almost nothing.

Quote :

"50 lb. bag of long grain rice? $73.99 - http://www.amazon.com/Long-Grain-Brown-Rice-Pound/dp/B0007NKC7Q/ Cost per pound? $1.48"

A pound of rice is about 2.5 cups of rice, and a cup of rice (uncooked) has about 600 calories in it. So $1.48 will get you only 1500 calories. That is nothing. And you can't eat rice 24/7 and consider it completely nutritious.

Compare this to 400 calories in a $.10 bag of ramon. With $1.48 you could get 6000 calories with ramon noodles.

I'm simply making the point that empty calories are cheaper than nutritional calories. Even if you use cheap rice, beans, fruits, vegetables. Healthy food is always going to come out more expensive.

v just saw that, sorry. But still same point. Rice isn't cheap compared to shitty packaged food.

[Edited on October 8, 2009 at 10:53 PM. Reason : cooked/uncooked rice]

10/8/2009 10:34:44 PM

A cup of cooked rice is 200 calories. A cup of uncooked rice is about 675 calories. So closer to 1,700 calories in a pound.

10/8/2009 10:42:26 PM

Quote :

"This family spends $1.23 per week on food: "

Then why the fuck am I sending them $0.70 a day?!?! I knew that shit was a scam.

10/8/2009 10:47:13 PM

^^^

Think of it this way.

Cheapest: Really really really cheap shit like ramen and whatever.

Cheap: Beans and rice and purchased vegetables.

Less cheap: Prepackaged shit and fast food.

Expensive: Whole food organic prepackaged shit.

Your argument is stupid anyway because no one could live on ramen noodles, and that's literally the only thing that is THAT cheap at the supermarket. People can survive fine on beans, lentils, rice, and small amounts of vegetables and be very healthy.

[Edited on October 8, 2009 at 10:51 PM. Reason : ]

10/8/2009 10:50:38 PM

This whole argument about unhealthy food being cheaper per calorie is silly. Ok, so it's true, but whats your point? You can still eat much more healthy and balanced meals with less money as several people have pointed out. You're not going to consume as many calories (but thats part of eating healthier, so again, the argument is pointless).

The studies talking about cost per calorie are just dumb number-twisting propaganda trying to make people feel bad about keeping the poor man down.

10/8/2009 10:53:41 PM

OP doesn't understand the difference between calorie dense foods and water dense foods.

10/8/2009 10:55:52 PM

Quote :

"You're not going to consume as many calories (but thats part of eating healthier, so again, the argument is pointless)."

The comparison was the same calories for unhealthy/healthy for the same type of person. Say a person needs 2000 calories a day to survive with their body weight, amount of exercise etc.

I agree you can eat healthy for cheap. I do it just fine. I'm simply saying junk food (ramon, potato chips, cinnabon, etc) are all cheaper per calorie. That's all i'm saying.

^I think i do. I don't see how that's directly relevant though to $ per calorie.

Quote :

"Your argument is stupid anyway because no one could live on ramen noodles, and that's literally the only thing that is THAT cheap at the supermarket."

Not true at all. I'm talking about most store bought junk food. You can usually get a can of soda for $.25 and that's almost 200 calories. A cinabon thing you can get in vending machines is like $.50 and it has almost 600 calories i believe.

[Edited on October 8, 2009 at 11:02 PM. Reason : .]

10/8/2009 10:58:50 PM

Quote :

"The comparison was the same calories for unhealthy/healthy for the same type of person. Say a person needs 2000 calories a day to survive with their body weight, amount of exercise etc."

It's not that simple.

If Ramen Noodles are 200 calories, I can't eat 10 packages and go, "WHELP, I'm done for the day! Durr durr..."

10/8/2009 11:01:19 PM

i enjoyed the Penn and Teller: Bullshit episode on organic food. i suggest it to people in this thread.

10/8/2009 11:03:10 PM

^^you're thinking back to the healthy argument though. You can 4 ramon noodle packs (400 cal. each i think) and technically have the amount of calories you need for the day. You'll survive and it wil sustain you, but you won't be healthy. That's my point. People who eat really unhealthy do sustain themselves on stuff like this.

[Edited on October 8, 2009 at 11:05 PM. Reason : ^^]

10/8/2009 11:04:32 PM

Quote :

"Not true at all. I'm talking about most store bought junk food. You can usually get a can of soda for $.25 and that's almost 200 calories. A cinabon thing you can get in vending machines is like $.50 and it has almost 600 calories i believe."

But it's empty calories. It's preservatives and fat and useless shit.

You can be just as full with an apple, even though that apple technically has less calories.

A 2000 calorie diet is not literally "eat these numbers and you are not going to gain or lose weight."

10/8/2009 11:05:10 PM

BUT YOU'RE MISSING MY POINT THAT YOU CAN EAT CHEAP FOOD LIKE LENTILS, RICE, BEANS, AND VEGETABLES ACTUALLY BE HEALTHY.

NO POOR PERSON EATS YOUR STUPID ASS DIET OF STRAIGHT RAMEN AND WATER.

10/8/2009 11:06:09 PM

^^That's actually how calories work. You can't eat 600 calories of healthy food and imagine it's 1200. Caloric intake is typically constant for one type of person for whatever type of food you eat.

If you recall a calorie is a measure of energy. You can't eat an apple and get the same amount of energy as eating something with 3 times the calories. Make sense?

^You're missing my point. I agree with you. You can eat healthy for cheap. I do it. I eat rice, beans, lentils, fresh vegetables/fruits everyday.

Quote :

"NO POOR PERSON EATS YOUR STUPID ASS DIET OF STRAIGHT RAMEN AND WATER."

You're not reading what i wrote. I said ramon, soda, chips, etc. Shit some people do live on.

[Edited on October 8, 2009 at 11:11 PM. Reason : spelling]

10/8/2009 11:10:12 PM

Quote :

"the studies I referenced above found that energy-dense foods (i.e. junk food) cost ~$2 per 1000 calories, compared with ~$18 per 1000 calories for low-energy nutritious foods (i.e. fruits and vegs)."

but isnt' 1000 cals of veggies >>>>>>>> 1000 cals of junkfood.
ie 8 cans of green beans vs 2 king size snickers bars.

8 cans of green beans is more expensive- but it will last you a hell of a lot longer than 2 king size candy bars.
so on a time scale perspective isnt the price difference is pretty marginal?

or am i thinking about this all wrong?

10/8/2009 11:16:38 PM

Quote :

"it is a whole lot easier/cheaper to eat junk food than it is to try and cook for one person"

FTFY




And why the fuck are you people arguing over this "cheaper calories" bullshit? Of course you can get more calories for cheaper, but you can eat the same fucking amount of healthy food for just as cheap, still meet your daily calorie needs, and not be a fat fuck.


Broccoli heads at the fresh market last week were 99c/lb. Get that, a cup of rice, and a chicken breast and we're talking less than 5 dollars a meal. I swear you will be more satisfied/full after eating that than a 5 dollar meal from mcdonalds while taking in less calories and getting more benefit. You can season that shit with salt and pepper, maybe some olive oil or italian spices and it doesn't shoot the price up that much since the olive oil and spices go a long way if you're not a retard.


Also, stop spending your money on cigarettes and booze while you feed your kids mcdonalds becaues you're too drunk to use a stove. I'm not fabricating this...it really fucking happens, and you people should be castrated and have your children taken away.

10/8/2009 11:20:08 PM

^^Believe you're thinking about this wrong.

If a person needs 1500 calories a day to "sustain" themselves. Then 1500 of snickers bars is obviously much cheaper than 1500 calories of healthy foods or green beans or whatever. You can get 1500 calories from candy bars, chips, soda, etc cheaper than getting 1500 of "healthy" calories from fruits vegetables, grains, etc.

Quote :

"Of course you can get more calories for cheaper, but you can eat the same fucking amount of healthy food for just as cheap, still meet your daily calorie needs, and not be a fat fuck."

You just contradicted yourself in one sentence. You said of course you can get more calories for cheaper, but then you said you can get the same amount of calories of healthy food for just as cheap. (assuming the said person needs 1500 calories a day).

I agree with everyone. You can eat healthy for cheap, i do it. I'm not saying you can't. I'm just saying it's cheaper to eat junk food to get the same amount of calories.

10/8/2009 11:23:09 PM

no, learn to read



I said you can get the same AMOUNT of healthy food, not the same number of calories. You put a pound of food in your stomach, whether it has 1000 or 10,000 calories, you will be just as "full"

10/8/2009 11:27:37 PM

^Included in the sentence was:

Quote :

"still meet your daily calorie needs"

which implies same number of calories because this entire time i was saying SAME CALORIES with either junk food or healthy food. So 1500 cal. for junk food per day, or 1500 cal. for healthy food per day.

Also I titled this thread "Eating healthy costs more", not "you can't eat healthy for cheap." "Eating healthy costs more" does NOT mean you can't eat healthy for cheap. Jeeez.

Ok i don't get what yall are arguing about.

1. It's a widely known fact that a certain person has a certain required caloric intake per day to maintain life or sustain themselves.

2. I have shown plenty of times that junk food cost less per calorie than healthy food with prices and amount of calories.

3. I agree with everyone, you CAN eat healthy for cheap. That's not what I'm talking about nor is it the title of the thread.

4. BUT you can SUSTAIN yourself with junk food like some people do by eating cheaper calories.

That's all i'm saying. I don't see what there is to argue about.

[Edited on October 8, 2009 at 11:37 PM. Reason : .]

10/8/2009 11:36:23 PM

So all i need to survive is just calories? I don't need to ingest anything else, just calories? That's it?

10/8/2009 11:56:09 PM

also. caloric needs are extremely varied.

i was told my a doctor that it ranges from 900-2500

yes people can live and be healthy on 900/day.
usually they are very sedentary, but it is possible.

however I do not have a study to back this up, just what i was told by a general practitioner.

[Edited on October 9, 2009 at 12:06 AM. Reason : fhg]

10/9/2009 12:06:46 AM

A calorie is a unit of energy not nutritional value or substance. Yes you need a certain amount of energy per day to live.

^ still besides point. We're assuming same level activity body type etc.

[Edited on October 9, 2009 at 12:11 AM. Reason : V]

10/9/2009 12:09:17 AM

While the cheaper calorie argument is compelling, it breaks down because people eat twice as many of the cheap calories as they need so the cost benefits are lost...sure, the food is cheaper per calorie but if you're practically guaranteed to eat too much of it, it's no longer cheaper.

But it's a little more than a lack of education. Somewhat off-topic:

Quote :

"People in poverty spend money on overpriced junk food for the same reason that everybody else does. It's comforting, extremely convenient, packaged attractively, and advertised to us all damn day. It is very difficult for anyone to overcome the billion dollar advertising industry, especially people who don't have the time or energy to fight the messages that are continuously beamed at them from all directions. People also tend to cook the way their family cooked growing up. The typical diet of impoverished folks of the past included lots of starches and grease. You still see those mainstays in families of generational poverty. This is kind of like cultural lag. Another factor that affects the eating habits of people in poverty is education; for example, there are many people who don't even know that a carbohydrate is essentially the same thing as sugar. You see people with diabetes still eating loads of potatoes, mac and cheese, and cornbread. They won't touch cookies or candy though. Yet another factor is healthcare. When you are born and raised in a community where no one you know has ever been to the doctor except when they go to the emergency room for a pregnancy or a disaster, you can imagine that health is less likely to be a top priority. Another thing worth considering is transportation. Many people in poverty live without cars in communities that are isolated from decent grocery options. You can often find corner stores that accept food stamps but sell nutritionless shit and overcharge. So often people's most convenient shopping option is essentially a convenience store with a very limited selection--they always have plenty of beer and wine though. So back to y'all's bulk situation, if somebody does get to the grocery store, just picture them standing on the side of the road waiting an hour for the bus with several bags of groceries, including their twenty pounds of ground beef (that's only on sale because it's about to go bad--hope the freezer ain't broke) and forty pounds of bananas... There is lots of other shit that goes into it, and I have by no means studied the topic thoroughly, but I know enough to not chalk up differences to one groups being "dumb and lazy." This is a non-issue anyway. Nothing's gonna change. We'll hear about this from time to time when "journalists" need to pick up the ratings. Overweight women on food stamps are guaranteed to entertain, I guess."

http://brentroad.com/message_topic.aspx?topic=557742&page=1


But junk food is really, really overpriced. A couple years ago, I was "treating" myself to a cart full of junk food at Harris Teeter. The line was especially long so it gave me time to think...I was wasting my time, waiting in line, to be overcharged like crazy for food that was going to kill me. I can't remember what I did, but I believe I may have abandoned the cart right there in the middle of the line, and if that's the case, I'd like to take this moment to apologize for inconveniencing the workers.

[Edited on October 9, 2009 at 12:28 AM. Reason : sss]

10/9/2009 12:21:25 AM

Quote :

"A calorie is a unit of energy not nutritional value or substance."

So what are you arguing here? you are making the argument that calories in junk food are cheaper. calories are not a unit of nutrition, as you yourself have pointed out. so your whole argument that eating healthy is more expensive (based solely on calories) isn't making any sense.

10/9/2009 12:28:49 AM

I eat lamb approximately 4 times a week. its both expensive and unhealthy. and I love it

10/9/2009 12:30:05 AM