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2/13/2010 1:55:57 PM

Professor accused in Ala. slayings shot her brother in Mass. 24 years ago

http://www.boston.com/news/local/breaking_news/2010/02/professor_accus.html

2/13/2010 2:02:57 PM

2/13/2010 2:12:09 PM

For those of you that know about concealed carry laws, out of curiosity... say you were at the scene when this went down and you pulled out your gun and shot the lady. If she didn't die (but was immobilized), would you be charged with anything? What if she did die? I mean it would be pretty obvious that you subdued the shooter and there would be witnesses saying that she was nuts and you stopped her.

2/13/2010 2:48:09 PM

Quote :

"Adding guns to the situation is only going to make it more likely that they get used. Its like non-proliferation. Most criminals use guns with no intentions to actually shoot them but to deter physical resistance and make the victims submit to their demands. Everyday people drawing guns anytime a criminal draws a gun is only going to lead to a "draw" scenario and possible shootouts. False. Furthermore, anytime a criminal pulls a gun, then your life is in danger and you are legally able to respond with whatever means necessary to protect yourself. There are countless cases where the victim complies, and then the bad guy shoots them anyway so they can't be identified. You also talk as if people with permits shoot with 100% accuracy. Its much more likely that the person next to me who pulls a gun out on a criminal that entered the room with a gun is going to get involved into a shootout with the criminal. If this is a crowded area (even if the permit shooter is an expert it could be the criminal) somebody could miss and hit a bystander. Criminals would be much more likely to grab a human shield in the case that soemone else had a gun. An average CHP/CCW holder practices more often and is more proficient with their firearm than any given police officer. This is because the police are only required to qualify 1-4 times a year depending on department policy. Other than that, they don't use their firearm (based on many, many discussions with various law enforcement agencies). If the criminal is already shooting, as this is about a shooter on campus, then there is already a shoot out. A person ending it as soon as possible is a good thing, as opposed to waiting 5+ minutes for police officers to arrive. It has been shown repeatedly that these "gun free zone" shooters take their own life when confronted, not hunker down and get defensive. Even if all goes as you planned, you just killed the criminal just because he pulled a gun that he most likely had no intention of using. So nobody had to die and now the criminal is dead with blood on your hands. See the first reply. Where do you get off telling us that criminals that pull guns don't intend to use them? They are there to force compliance. That is a use. If there is no compliance, they get used again. You are actually using a totally different circumstance than the basis of this thread though, so I should really ignore you. Its better off and much safer to just let the criminal get what they want and leave. The criminal just wanted to kill people. I guess we should just let them go about their business without interuption. This is a rare case of gun use where criminals enter the game looking to shoot and kill multiple people and your whole argument seems to be on the basis that people are going postal everyday. This isn't actually that rare. You seem to be ignoring that fact. Most CHP/CCW holders will tell you just to comply with an armed robbery. The chances of drawing a firearm and effectively using it against a person that already has a weapon are you are slim to none, and requires extensive training. Please don't try and argue with me, as you are obviously wrong, and I'm tired of feeding you. "

See bolded.

Quote :

"For those of you that know about concealed carry laws, out of curiosity... say you were at the scene when this went down and you pulled out your gun and shot the lady. If she didn't die (but was immobilized), would you be charged with anything? What if she did die? I mean it would be pretty obvious that you subdued the shooter and there would be witnesses saying that she was nuts and you stopped her."

No, you would not be charged with anything. Under NC law, you are legally able to stop forcible felonies, and imminent severe bodily injury and/or death. It is found under our 'weak' self protection laws. Under NC law though, you would still be liable in civil court for the bag guy/BG's family to sue you. It would be tough to have the good guy found liable though.

[Edited on February 13, 2010 at 2:52 PM. Reason : .]

2/13/2010 2:49:18 PM

Just because a few people go crazy doesn't mean we should react with rules in place that would overall increase the amount of danger to gune.

Quote :

" Where do you get off telling us that criminals that pull guns don't intend to use them? They are there to force compliance. That is a use. If there is no compliance, they get used again. You are actually using a totally different circumstance than the basis of this thread though, so I should really ignore you. "

I get off from the statistics. Guns are used all the times in countless armed robberies but people generally don't want to kill other people. They bring a gun along just to keep people from "trying anything". What % of armed robberies do you believe actually result in somone being shot? If there was always someone present with a gun that % would increase significantly.

Quote :

"The criminal just wanted to kill people. I guess we should just let them go about their business without interuption."

RARELY the case

Quote :

"You are actually using a totally different circumstance than the basis of this thread though, so I should really ignore you. "

Like I said, It would have helped IN THIS CASE. but this is a rare case and it likely would have made situations worse in the other 99% of criminals "pulling a gun". Just comply and get it over with. Nobody gets hurt and the criminal is brought down in a safe way at a later time.

Quote :

" The chances of drawing a firearm and effectively using it against a person that already has a weapon are you are slim to none, and requires extensive training."

Ya so whats the poing? your only hope would be to sneak up and shoot somebody just because they have a gun pulled. Without even knowing the situation. Now they are dead and it didn't even have to end that way.



[Edited on February 13, 2010 at 4:37 PM. Reason : k]

2/13/2010 4:19:17 PM

You do realize the entirety of you post 49 is in post 54

2/13/2010 4:24:35 PM

Wow, way to selectively quote. Try replying to the totality of each post. Then, and only then, will you be worth my time to prove wrong once again.

2/13/2010 4:55:04 PM

Also don't forget the fact that 85% of close range encounters (like what you would have in a school building) occur within 21 feet - over 50% of them occuring within 5 feet.

People with CHP/CCW are very accurate within 21 feet. I may not hit within a quarter on every single shot, but if i'm aiming for your sternum i'll shoot no further off than your lungs.

Add the fact that I shoot JHP (jacketed hollow points for you non gun people).. meaning if I miss, the bullet will deform as soon as it hits anything else (including drywall) - which means there is less of a chance of hitting an innocent bystander.


I'm sorry but the statistics overwhelming support the cause of allowing CHP carrying students to carry on campus.


Let's examine what happens when people are given the right to carry in general, according to your theories crime should go rampant when people are allowed to have guns on them. Go to http://www.justfacts.com/guncontrol.asp and see the "Right-To-Carry Laws" section.

2/13/2010 5:03:00 PM

oh god this is turning into one of these thread again, is it?

more predictable than a bbq thread

2/13/2010 5:03:21 PM

^what did you expect to happen?

Especially when people (like mambagrl) start spouting off stupid, inaccurate shit, and people like myself feel compelled to answer and correct so mis-information isn't spread.

2/13/2010 5:10:22 PM

there was a pro comment long before there was an anti

2/13/2010 5:11:14 PM

^^And I just got in from the gun range a few hours ago so i'm still feeling the high of shooting a 500S&W

[Edited on February 13, 2010 at 5:13 PM. Reason : .]

2/13/2010 5:11:50 PM

^^You do realize the anti popped up, and then we started to correct?

2/13/2010 5:13:10 PM

I have a feeling if every time a criminal pulled a gun on someone, they got blasted by someone with a CHP a lot fewer criminals would be stupid enough to try it.

Criminals brandish guns because they know they will encounter no meaningful resistance. The overwhelming majority of them are just as afraid of being shot as you are. The only people who are going to knowingly pull a gun in a room with other armed people in it are those that don't care if they get killed.

Most people with permits to carry firearms are responsible individuals when it comes to guns.

2/13/2010 5:24:04 PM