many people involved said before they shithole comment they had a deal

something else will need to become a hot topic though to get back to a deal

1/22/2018 2:49:59 PM

good lord the Democrats are straight weak and control zero of the conversation

1/22/2018 3:38:12 PM

The only thing I can hope is that this helps dems in the midterms. A long shutdown probably rallies republicans to the polls. Now this whole thing is a nonissue in the fall and the republicans obvious “betrayal” when they don’t deal will rally dems. Immigration is a losing issue anyway for dems as the minority party, it’s too easy of an issue for Rs to win the messaging on by just “confusing” legal and illegal immigration. College educated folks will “get it” but there’s a lot of voters that buyin to the talking points.

1/22/2018 4:57:32 PM

Dems up for re-election in 2018 caved because polls over the weekend showed the majority of Americans didn't support the shutdown and placed blame correctly on the democrats. as much as the media tried to spin this onto Trump, polling showed a different story.

1/22/2018 5:54:08 PM

My suspicion is that Schumer & Co. have had the following thoughts in mind:

1) It will be embarrassing for the President to hit the anniversary of his inauguration in a shutdown. True, as far as it goes, though I don't think it goes very far with Trump's base of quasi-literate bipedal swine-people.
2) At the same time, Senators from red states can't afford to make a stand on this very long.
3) If you set McConnell up with a promise like this, then you can play any failure to move forward on DACA as bad faith on the part of Republicans - even if Turtle Boy Mitch is true to his word and it's Trump or his battered spouse Paul Ryan who actually throws a wrench in the works.

If you take those three points as true, then this was the way to swing it - keep the shutdown going just long enough to ruin Trump's weekend and bleed into the work week to really scare everybody, then you help cover your red state senators and wait for McConnell to either give you what you want or reveal himself to be a liar in even more spectacular fashion than he usually does.

My main objection here is that I don't think the Democrats are good enough at messaging to make (3) matter, but otherwise I'll tentatively give Schumer & Co. the benefit of the doubt - particularly because the alternative is too depressing, this being that all the red state folks turned coward at once.

It's also true that this wasn't a particularly good hill to die on. This shutdown is not going to be a major issue by midterm voting time. There will be 400,000 scandals/tweets/disasters between now and then. Remember Scaramucci? I don't. I had to look up his name just now.

1/22/2018 6:02:22 PM

I think this was a huge failure for the democratic party. Optics matter, messaging matters, and the democrats managed to give the president a win while deflating their energized base and make it look like they were to blame for the pointless shutdown.

1/22/2018 6:23:45 PM

Out of curiosity, what messaging strategy do you think would have been effective? Unfortunately, "Trump did this" and "We did this for DREAMers" aren't compatible messages. I think you people are overvaluing the hand Democrats had to play here. Sure, DACA is popular across the political spectrum, but shutting down the government for DACA is not. Polling showed this.

Also, the other thing to remember is there actually is no "liberal media". Everyone from MSNBC to NYT were displaying chyrons and publishing articles either blaming Democrats or at best both-sidesing. It just wasn't possible to win the war in this manner.

[Edited on January 22, 2018 at 7:46 PM. Reason : .]

1/22/2018 7:40:40 PM

This is what I'm thinking. For 2.5 weeks we have DACA protestors being dragged out of the capitol. Every media outlet runs articles about the plight of some of these people, literally soldier's families could be deported, that shit writes itself. Every time a reporter catches part of the Klan caucus in the halls of congress they ask "where is your bill, where are negotiations?" They won't have an answer because most of them aren't actually interested in helping dreamers in any way. In general, "immigration hardliners" seem to suffer from a lack of ideas and typically just depend on thinly disguised racism anyway. With any luck even Trump, god of the temporary shiny object distraction, might not be able to move the news cycle (a long shot, but we'll see). The cherry on top will be when some of these asshats get frustrated and knee jerk into racist dog whistles, it's all they know.

When the GOP isn't able to produce anything that'll pass both houses of congress, or even if they just flatly ignore the issue and go about their other priorities, Dems can claim they at least tried. They bent over in order to keep the government open. They can take the position of being the adults in the room, a position a LOT of people are yearning for right now. Dems can then attempt to add DACA as an amendment to every bill from now until November 2018, while in the meantime ICE is demanding to see people's papers on the bus and ambushing dreamers at their jobs, or school, or emergency room, etc.

That's how I'd play it.

1/22/2018 7:59:45 PM

Yeah, I'm really curious what folks were expecting in the way of realistic outcomes.

The pile of campaign ad fodder will be nice.

[Edited on January 22, 2018 at 8:14 PM. Reason : GGG]

1/22/2018 8:12:49 PM

Quote :

"Out of curiosity, what messaging strategy do you think would have been effective? "

Honestly I think any time not using Republican words from the last shutdown against them - especially Trump's "The President is responsible" talk - was wasted time. They should have been hammering that home every chance they got. There should have been ads about it. You can't sustain that for too long, but I think that even int he short run it might have frightened Republicans into a better deal. It certainly had more potential than...whatever the actual plan was.

Quote :

"Everyone from MSNBC to NYT were displaying chyrons and publishing articles either blaming Democrats or at best both-sidesing."

CNN, at least, was all but saying "This is the Republicans' fault." And watching Anderson try to spin this debacle in the Dem's favor tonight was almost pathetic.

1/22/2018 9:16:35 PM

Oh man, I'm so glad the shutdown is over. I don't know how I survived the last few days...

1/22/2018 10:01:58 PM

What was the point of going through with the shutdown if you were just going to budge immediately?

What's the point of constantly being the "adult in the room" when you constantly budge to the big wet baby at every turn?

How can you possibly expect and demand the latino vote when you just demonstrated to every hispanic voter that you are not willing to go to bat for them? I thought the entirety of the Democratic strategy going forward was to chase "changing demographics" in key states like North Carolina or Virginia where there is a rising latino population?

How can you possibly expect them to show up to the polls when you just demonstrated that you are not willing to fight for them?

1/22/2018 10:09:04 PM

Quote :

"The future of the party will be places like North Carolina, which is demographically very similar to Virginia, and southern states with growing hispanic populations."

--Shrike, 11/8/2017

Quote :

"The Democrats were never going to get DACA"

Shrike, 1/22/2018




In less than two months time, Shrike went from confidently declaring that changing demographics and rising hispanic populations would assure democrats future electoral wins, to brushing off issues important to hispanic populations as not important.


With friends like these

1/22/2018 10:26:45 PM

This is why the democratic party is a joke. No backbone whatsoever. Stand for nothing. Turdferguson's post capture their entire strategy.

Quote :

". Sure, DACA is popular across the political spectrum, but shutting down the government for DACA is not. Polling showed this."

How about stand for something instead of worrying about how everything will play in the polls?

Quote :

"What was the point of going through with the shutdown if you were just going to budge immediately? What's the point of constantly being the "adult in the room" when you constantly budge to the big wet baby at every turn?"

being re-elected. you have to pretend to have progressive idealss just enough but not too much.

Quote :

"How can you possibly expect them to show up to the polls when you just demonstrated that you are not willing to fight for them?"

You don't have to do anything for them if your entire platform is that you won't actively do anything against them and the other side will.

Progressive values will never be realized until the democratic party is destroyed.

[Edited on January 23, 2018 at 12:10 AM. Reason : trump wins]

1/23/2018 12:09:19 AM

Quote :

"Out of curiosity, what messaging strategy do you think would have been effective? "

Dems write a funding bill restoring DACA, CHIP, and ACA cost sharing reduction payments (which actually save the gov money), get all 49 to sign on, ask for 11 more GOPers to sign on.

When/if they reject, beat them over the head with it, since these are all items that have overwhelming public support, encourage people to write their GOP congresspeople.

[Edited on January 23, 2018 at 1:07 AM. Reason : ]

1/23/2018 1:07:32 AM

Bttt

9/30/2025 11:41:10 AM

I think what I hate most about this is now no BLS reports etc. So now trump can continue to lie about his great economy etc

10/1/2025 12:44:27 AM

There was a chance he was going to cancel those anyway.

But, the whole government is canceled.

10/1/2025 6:47:28 AM

bad economy? canceled!

10/1/2025 7:44:50 AM

How could the Democrats do this to us?!?!?

10/1/2025 9:29:51 AM

same face when I hear about how somehow constantly de-powered Roy Cooper/Josh Stein are totally responsible for the laws passed by our NC gerrymandered GOP legislature/State Supreme Court

[Edited on October 1, 2025 at 12:10 PM. Reason : OMG FEMA RAWR RAWR]

10/1/2025 12:10:07 PM

Quote :

"But the shutdown is a golden opportunity to point out the stakes of what is happening. Congressional Democrats have characteristically tried to make this entirely about health care, but the reality is much more consequential. This is about Donald Trump shredding any semblance of America’s democratic republic, with the complete support of his corrupt regime toadies on the Supreme Court and in Congress."

https://prospect.org/politics/2025-10-01-real-problem-with-trump-shutdown/

Contradicts the obamacare column I posted a little but makes some good points

10/1/2025 9:05:47 PM

^ that quote is spot on. Democrats have already lost this. It’s about the 100th time national leaders at dnc have refused to take up the mantel of American Democracy. Saw AOC even parroting the awkward healthcare messaging she basically was choking it out. It’s idiotic

They’ve lost the public messaging on this I think. Last time I saw all the reasons the gop holdouts weren’t negotiating with Johnson and trump. And now it’s all the democrats negotiating and nothing about the gop holdouts

I think if democrats were smart they would have said “Trump steps down or the government stays closed” let the media cook in this narrative or trump being unfit and just see what happens.

10/1/2025 10:48:41 PM

^using a continuing resolution to force the president to step down is blatantly unconstitutional.

^^I agree that forcing language that ends the rescissions from the previous CR was/is the better angle. It’s not asking for any additional spending, only that the money allocated be spent as intended, as the constitution requires. A no brainer.

If I had to guess, some consultant focused tested that message and found the average voter was too stupid to understand what a “pocket rescission” was and why it’s unconstitutional. So they turned to healthcare. My understanding is negotiating over the constitutional issues was still on the table when Schumer and Jeffries went to the Whitehouse, but that seemed to just be shit talking and dumb social media content creation. Do people not remember the 2023 shutdown when Biden was haggling with McCarthy daily and we got this continuing saga of negotiations and chess moves, etc? We’ve been reduced to secretly staged Trump 2028 hat pictures and AI videos of Jeffries in a sombrero with a mustache. To think I thought politics in 2023 was stupid.

I don’t absolutely hate the healthcare subsidy ask either though. If some of these projected premium hikes hit the marketplaces, it’s gotta be one of the last nails in the ACA’s coffin.Dems either get to keep the ACA or are gifted with some hefty political ammo in just a few months.

10/2/2025 5:52:01 AM

Department of Labor employees were told to use this as their Out of Office message:

Quote :

"This message is intended for all Department of Labor (DOL) Federal employees. The Office of Management and Budget (OMB) has provided the following template language to establish employees' out of office notifications. Furloughed Employees: Thank you for contacting me. On September 19, 2025, the House of Representatives passed H.R. 5371, a clean continuing resolution. Unfortunately, Democrat Senators are blocking passage of H.R. 5371 in the Senate which has led to a lapse in appropriations. Due to the lapse in appropriations I am currently in furlough status. I will respond to emails once government functions resume. Excepted Employees: Thank you for contacting me. On September 19, 2025, the House of Representatives passed H.R. 5371, a clean continuing resolution. Unfortunately, Democrat Senators are blocking passage of H.R. 5371 in the Senate which has led to a lapse in appropriations. I am only permitted to perform work that, by law, may continue to be performed during a lapse in appropriations. Therefore, I may not be able to respond to your message at this time. As soon as funding is restored, I will return your message."

10/2/2025 8:36:13 AM

not sure how democrats think they are supposed to bargain with people who take joy in this?

10/2/2025 8:50:47 AM

Yea the column above makes similar points in that there is also no reason to think Trump won't just cut any funds after the fact anyway.

Quote :

"I don’t absolutely hate the healthcare subsidy ask either though. If some of these projected premium hikes hit the marketplaces, it’s gotta be one of the last nails in the ACA’s coffin.Dems either get to keep the ACA or are gifted with some hefty political ammo in just a few months."

Maybe should have posted both here, but I put something about that in the Obamacare thread

10/2/2025 8:54:42 AM

Sounds like a good idea

Quote :

"inbox, from Democratic Assembly nominee Katie Brennan (LD-32, Jersey City/Hoboken): Brennan Calls for New Jersey to Withhold Federal Taxes, Seize Trump’s Bedminster Golf Course After Gateway Tunnel Funding Freeze"

https://bsky.app/profile/primaryschool.bsky.social/post/3m262bawrgc2n

[Edited on October 2, 2025 at 8:58 AM. Reason : E]

10/2/2025 8:58:11 AM

similarly the krugman piece in the other thread makes the same mistake, although he jabs republicans more than once for not caring about people, the key is he refers to obamacare as ACA.

hes surprised they didnt wait to fuck it up until after the midterms? that was on purpose. they simply want to be able to say "see? we told you OBAMAcare was shit" after premiums skyrocket.

then they are going to appeal to "their base" even though it isnt really their base and ask people "remember when your insurance was cheap and you got good prices because you were healthy" even though their base is not healthy.

and everyone else is staring at them like "is this real life" but thats what we say when they literally do anything so...

10/2/2025 9:07:49 AM

https://x.com/JDVance/status/1973716195695071605

Quote :

" This is important--money is fungible--and it's why the Democrat and media lie that health care is not going to illegals is so preposterous. Consider, for instance, two state Medicaid programs--Ohio and New York. New York gives Medicaid to illegals and Ohio doesn't. When the government gives billions of dollars to New York for Medicaid, that frees up state money in New York that can then be spent on illegals. It's like if you give a mobster $100 but he PROMISES you he won't spend the money to buy a gun and commit a crime. Well, he takes the $100 you gave him and buys food, and then takes the money he would have spent on food and uses that money to buy the gun instead. This is what "money is fungible" means. Additionally, because medical services are limited in supply, when an illegal accesses health. care, it drives up the cost for everyone. So New Yorkers are paying a higher price for medical services, and the federal government is subsidizing those higher prices. So everyone in the media, from George Stephanopoulos to Jake Tapper, repeating these Democrat talking points, is engaged in the Democrat propaganda war. Democrats shut down the government to give health care money to illegal aliens. It's really that simple."

10/2/2025 10:01:29 AM

bold of him to use this framing

Quote :

"if you give a mobster $100"

10/2/2025 10:21:34 AM

Now do highways.

10/2/2025 11:16:57 AM

Do what with highways? That post from x actually does sound kinda convincing

10/2/2025 12:02:55 PM

Vance is giving Stephen Miller a run for his money for most evil person of this regime

10/2/2025 12:07:37 PM

essentially the same argument they use for foodstamps abuse

10/2/2025 12:11:54 PM

Quote :

"Do what with highways?"

he's talking about coercive federalism

10/2/2025 12:12:56 PM

Vance might have a point if New York wasn’t a net contributor on federal taxes, Ohio isn’t. New York is paying billions to the federal government, getting back less, and still came up with the cash to improve healthcare access for undocumented people. The only thing that’s fungible here is Ohio lowering its tax rates while feeding at the federal trough.

But really, those enhanced ACA subsidies went out to 22 million people last year, all over the country. Literally, one of the last remaining life rafts making our shit bag healthcare system tenable to working people living above the poverty line. Is ”it’s money for illegals!1!1!1!1” really supposed to fly when gig economy Joe logs into the marketplace in November and all the plans are twice as expensive?

10/2/2025 12:29:27 PM

^^ And the argument can be made for anything, not just health care.

^ Put the money printer recipients in Ohio and see which one contributes more on paper. All the federal dollars of quantitative easing go first through NY (and subsequently all the dollars invested there).

I assume Vance is going to suggest something like this at some point since they don't seem serious about turning off the money printer. Ohio can then get armies of Ivy League Mackenzie consultants to help drive up their income taxes and look better on paper.

10/2/2025 1:16:14 PM

Quote :

"And the argument can be made for anything"

Quote :

"Put the money printer recipients in Ohio the bag"

[Edited on October 2, 2025 at 1:44 PM. Reason : genz got me!]

10/2/2025 1:39:49 PM

^^Please let me know when Vance gets around to proposing the programs that will double Ohio’s GDP.

10/2/2025 4:00:55 PM

Quote :

"^using a continuing resolution to force the president to step down is blatantly unconstitutional."

Not only that, it's wildly dangerous. Trump sucks. This aint the way to reign him in

10/2/2025 6:03:00 PM

so the point still stands democrats have exactly zero leverage against people who enjoy the government shutdown, i hope im wrong of course, but a more interesting discussion might be:

"what happens to democrats when they fold? what are 'the left' going to do if anything?"

10/3/2025 8:30:57 AM

I'm going to make cynical posts on a messageboard.

10/3/2025 9:11:04 AM

MSNBC for example is already coping with "even if democrats vote for the CR they still brought attention back to healthcare and that's a win!"

So yeah that's probably the typical "normie corpo-democrat" response these days... maybe "the left" shoots someone and celebrates on BlueSky? Do they do that because republicans are evil or because democrats are pussies?

How about the usual threats of primary-ing people?

10/3/2025 9:59:48 AM

What would you like to see happen?

10/3/2025 10:01:58 AM

I would like to see people who left The Soapbox long ago come back and discuss things I can't answer.

10/3/2025 10:08:17 AM

Ah! That would be nice!

10/3/2025 10:32:37 AM

If the Dems fold, meaning the shutdown pain becomes too great and they feel forced to pass the GOP’s CR, it obligates the House to swear in the newly elected rep from Arizona, which would lead directly to the discharge petition for the release of the Epstein files. If you believe the hype regarding those files then no one is going to remember this shutdown lol. An Epstein file release is so chaotic I won’t even try to predict what happens after that point.

There is a lot of pain for Dems to feel in a shutdown, I don’t dispute that, but this attitude that GOP constituencies are just going to breeze through and feel nothing is such obvious bluster. Big Ag needs a bailout, preferably yesterday, and the newest National Defense Authorization Act was scheduled to pass Oct 1st.

The most obvious sign of weakness in the GOP’s position is Vance and Speaker Johnson have gone into overdrive trying to explain how improved ACA subsidies are illegals stealing your healthcare. NEW YORK! FUNGIBLE MONEY! PEOPLE SPEAKING SPANISH IN THE EMERGENCY ROOOOOM!!! From a political sense, It’s not great to be explaining this much. It’s not getting enough traction for them IMO.

10/3/2025 9:08:13 PM