Nice! At State, I definitely got along better with the people from PAMS than I did from CHASS or COM.

4/13/2010 5:30:20 PM

so is someone actually going to tell a funny joke ITT, or.....

4/13/2010 5:31:06 PM

Business majors all have huge dicks. True story.

4/13/2010 5:32:07 PM

Quote :

"I did not say that. A degree is necessary for my job. Perhaps you should work on your reading skills."

Perhaps you should take your own advice and re-read what you stated earlier:

Quote :

"I'm a professional writer. While there's a chance I could get my job without my degree, my degree helped me stand out above other job applicants."

Reading skills? Yeah, I have them. Apparently that degree wasn't as much of a help as you had thought it was.

Quote :

"The idea that "practical" is synonymous with "useful" is not an uncommon one."

I actually never stated that the degree was useless. You drew that assumption all on your own. I even stated that any 4 year degree is useful in getting a job.

Quote :

"FYI, grade requirements for major courses in your curriculum are school-wide. So, uh, yea, you can expect to graduate. Lots of people graduate every program at our school with a mediocre concept of what they're actually doing. Why do you think this doesn't apply to all courses? "

I know that in MAE, a 2.4 was required for the degree, but after checking back recently, it's now listed as a 2.0.

Anyway, the point that I was trying to get at was this. I know PLENTY of people who have failed an MAE class because they just didn't understand the material. While it's true that some professors do curve the grades, this is not true for all of them. And even for the ones that do curve the grades, students still end up failing.

Can you say the same thing for your English classes, or do the sucky writers just end up with a C and on their merry way?

Quote :

"Do you realize how many of the most successful men and women in the world, people acknowledged on Forbes top CEOs list, public figures are world leaders have backgrounds in Humanities, Social Sciences, and the extremely popular English degree? The problem is that you people are uninformed."

This has absolutely NOTHING to do with what I'm saying?

Quote :

"but you don't acknowledge that there isn't just "writing"."

Where did I show that I don't acknowledge this? I've talked with great length with my roommate regarding the humanity classes that he has to take.

Quote :

"all the other things which give us the ability and knowledge to write about any of the thousands of subjects or fields we could potentially devote ourselves to. "

And as my roommate said to me. He's getting a degree in being able to bullshit about anything. I'm aware of all the humanity classes you take, and why you take them. But all they give you is a very general knowledge on the subjects.

Quote :

"So your basis for saying the degree isn't useful is that it can be used to gain access to a large variety of potential fields of work?"

Funny, because I didn't say that. It's nothing but a straw man that you're trying to build up. I'm sure you know about straw man logic from your rhetoric class. In fact, if you actually read what you had quoted, you would have seen that I said that a degree is helpful. Hell, I don't need to tell you that a degree is only useful for getting a job. Why is that? Because most people assume that with a degree, you possess some type of knowledge on the subject you got the degree in.

Take me for instance. I'm going for an ME degree. When I graduate, employers will assume that I know about thermodynamics, how to do free-body diagrams and finding the equations of motion for an object, ect. They assume that I possess some skill set. They can assume that I at least know the basics. They can assume that it is highly unlikely that I just "lucked" out and got a degree.

With an English degree, is there any guarantee that the person who has the degree actually possess the skill set that is assumed to come with the degree? Is there a guarantee that they know how to write, or that they know logic, ect? With how subjective your field is, I find it hard to believe that any employer can see that degree and know that you possess the skill set that they assume you have.

It's not so much the subject matter that I find to be the problem. It's the grading. If you guys could come up with some way to add some objectivity to your grading, I could take it seriously. I think it would add more to the validity of the degree.

Quote :

"If the professors and staff and University were chosen at random from your studio audience, then maybe you would even be making a BIT of sense in this argument."

The people looking at the degree don't know the professors. They don't know what each professors standards are. While I doubt the University will hire just anyone (and to my knowledge, there are some well known writers in the department), there are no solidified standards for which to base the degree on. Just the standards that each professor the student had.

Quote :

"You use stereotypes and assumptions to base an argument against something you're not even familiar with."

And you're assuming that I don't know anything about your department. Granted, I don't proclaim to be an expert, but I know a lot more about it than you think that I know about it.

And regardless, this is not a valid defense against my claim that your degree has little value to it. This is not a valid defense against my attitude towards the degree being compromised of mostly subjective grading. This is not a valid defense against my proclamation that it is easy to get an English degree.

And perhaps you don't understand what I mean by devaluing the degree? When it is easy to attain a degree, it does lose value. It's kind of like supply and demand. When you have a large amount of people capable of getting such a degree, the demand for it goes down. And I feel that a large part of the reason why many people are capable of getting an English degree is due to the subjectivity within the program itself.

How often do you hear of a student having to drop out of Engineer, or an Engineer major failing a class? The same thing with other majors, like Biology, Chemistry, ect. Now look at your own College (CHASS) and ask yourself why you see people from other Colleges switching into CHASS. Is it because they want a challenge, or is it because they've already devoted 2 years of their life to college and they don't want to have nothing to show for it, so they switch in their CHASS or Business so they can get something.

But if you want to refute what I'm saying, the worst way you can do it is by trying to attack me or claim that I'm using "stereotypes" and "assumptions" without saying anything else that will backup what you're saying.

Quote :

"Because you're trying to make your own decisions in life seem the best, and put others down."

Again, here you go with putting words in my mouth. I haven't chastised or put anyone down for getting the degree. I've put down the English department and the degree, but I haven't attacked anyone, including you. If you want to go get an English degree, then by all means do so.

Quote :

"And worse yet, all I hear about is "oh this guy in English I met"."

"This guy in English I met" is my roommate and some of his friends that are within the department. It's true, I don't know everything. But at the same time, you're awfully getting defensive for someone who hasn't even been attacked. Has anyone called you stupid for going for an English degree? Is anyone chastising you?

4/13/2010 5:32:49 PM

tl;dnr

4/13/2010 5:34:23 PM

^ tl:dr

4/13/2010 5:36:04 PM

Quote :

"Reading skills? Yeah, I have them. Apparently that degree wasn't as much of a help as you had thought it was. "

You proved nothing. I said that there's a chance I could get my job without my particular degree. A degree is required for my job.

Again, read.

4/13/2010 5:38:47 PM

Quote :

"You proved nothing. I said that there's a chance I could get my job without my particular degree. A degree is required for my job. Again, read."

Again. It wasn't until after you questioned my reading skills that you stated that a degree is required, dumbass.

Quote :

"My boss mentioned it during the interview. She wanted someone with a strong background and interest in writing as opposed to someone who went to school for sociology or religion. I have a great portfolio, but a lot of writers have a great portfolio. My degree helped me stand out during the interview."

I don't see any place where you said that a degree was required.

Again, you never mentioned that a degree was needed, and you left:

Quote :

"My degree is in English. I'm a professional writer. While there's a chance I could get my job without my degree, my degree helped me stand out above other job applicants."

Open to interpretation. Learn to write better.

[Edited on April 13, 2010 at 5:47 PM. Reason : .]

4/13/2010 5:47:08 PM

Quote :

"dumbass"

oooh

you sure told me

ouch

4/13/2010 5:53:43 PM

LOL ... I remember when I too was a young engineering student, full of superiority.

4/13/2010 5:54:09 PM

^ I don't think I'm superior. I just think the English departments around the country need to adjust their grading and make it a bit more objective. Make it so that if anyone questions a grade, the professor can pull out the paper and specifically justify the grade so that any and all will agree. Now, I'm not sure how they could go about doing it, but I'm sure that there is a way. And if anything, it will benefit those who do go for English degrees.

^^ Beautiful cop out.

[Edited on April 13, 2010 at 5:59 PM. Reason : .]

4/13/2010 5:58:32 PM

I think calling people derogatory names is a cop out. Totally unnecessary.

4/13/2010 6:00:22 PM

^ And I think having to repeat myself because you refuse to point out where you had previously said or even implied in a way that would lead me to believe that your job requires a degree is totally unnecessary. You're the one with an English degree, so you should be a lot better at conveying what you mean to say than I am. You should be able to put yourself in the readers shoes and ask yourself whether the message you're trying to convey is successful.

Yet you'd rather chastise someone because you got called the fuck out.

4/13/2010 6:04:45 PM

^ Based on those statements, a few English classes would be beneficial to you.

4/13/2010 6:09:48 PM

lucy, please do not feed the troll.

4/13/2010 6:10:19 PM

^^ And again, you refuse to show me where you said that a degree is a requirement for your job. Instead, you'd rather try to put me on the offensive.

All you have to do is show me where you said that you said that a degree was a requirement for your job. Should be pretty simple for you if you actually said it.

4/13/2010 6:12:32 PM

Fine. Have a lovely evening, doll.

4/13/2010 6:14:06 PM

im not reading this shit


you people are retards

4/13/2010 6:15:35 PM

RAWR RAWR RAWR YOUR MAJOR ISN'T AS HARD AS MINE, AND YOU'LL NEVER FIND A JERB


Man, I know I heard that before I got to college, and all 4 years that I was there. Usually heard about it from some scrote licker that didn't know what in the hell they were talking about.

Meh, I turned out ok. I think success is probably driven by your desire/work ethic as opposed to your major *shrug*

4/13/2010 6:15:43 PM

Hey EMCE

come here often?

4/13/2010 6:16:35 PM

Hey Lucy

babe, I'll come wherever you want me to

4/13/2010 6:17:38 PM

I'll just interpret that as "I'm unable to show you that you need to work on your reading comprehension, as I did not convey to you that I need a degree for my job before telling you that you need to work on your reading comprehension. I am greatly sorry for wasting your time by this asinine discussion."

^^^ I find it funny that most people who I've seen that feel like their major is constantly being chastised are usually within CHASS or the college of design.

[Edited on April 13, 2010 at 6:21 PM. Reason : .]

4/13/2010 6:17:55 PM

EMCE, I want you right here, right now, right in this thread

do me now

4/13/2010 6:19:39 PM

oh baby


Here, put this on:




you're probably going to need this too...:

4/13/2010 6:22:18 PM

hahahah you people are getting trolled by a god damn auto mechanic

4/13/2010 6:23:19 PM

EMCE and LitS have made this thread. MADE IT.

4/13/2010 6:24:20 PM

Only if you wear these.

And bring this:

4/13/2010 6:24:28 PM

^^^BETTER TAKE THAT BACK. I'M GOING TO START FEELING INSECURE ABOUT MY DECISION AND COMPLAIN ABOUT IT ON TWW!

[Edited on April 13, 2010 at 6:25 PM. Reason : .]

4/13/2010 6:24:50 PM

Penis shackles, and money?
I don't get it

4/13/2010 6:25:28 PM

OH YOU"LL GET IT

4/13/2010 6:26:20 PM

Quote :

"10 / 10"

4/13/2010 6:27:33 PM

oh, ok

I want to start out with you on top. Eventually (does have to be the second position, unless you want it that way) I want to move into the Flying Lunar Ostrich Position

4/13/2010 6:28:10 PM

there's a party in this thread

EMCE's mouth is invited

hell, so is errybody

pass the

4/13/2010 6:29:07 PM

Quote :

" I actually never stated that the degree was useless. You drew that assumption all on your own. I even stated that any 4 year degree is useful in getting a job."

"...it's very easy to get a degree."
"...the degree doesn't really teach you much of anything practical,"
"...it seems like a waste of money."

Quote :

" Reading skills? Yeah, I have them."

If you knew anything about your own damn language, you might be able to understand what the words coming out of your mouth mean, and what conclusions they draw. You're using the same argument as "I never asked him to kill her, I only asked her to bound her and shoot her in the head, I never said anything about killing."

Quote :

" Anyway, the point that I was trying to get at was this. I know PLENTY of people who have failed an MAE class because they just didn't understand the material. While it's true that some professors do curve the grades, this is not true for all of them. And even for the ones that do curve the grades, students still end up failing. Can you say the same thing for your English classes, or do the sucky writers just end up with a C and on their merry way?"

Look, you don't base the rule off the exception. Maybe your roommate wasn't a good writer, maybe he was wrong, because there are plenty of people that fail and get terrible grades. I don't even see your point. You don't think people fail English classes? Are you that dense?

Quote :

" This has absolutely NOTHING to do with what I'm saying?"

Yes, it does. You were talking about practicality, and degrees being worth their money. Any English teacher would fail you for the analysis you're putting forth in this thread. The career advantages of a degree certainly have something to do with them being worth the effort.

Quote :

" Where did I show that I don't acknowledge this? I've talked with great length with my roommate regarding the humanity classes that he has to take."

You've been undermining English the entire time, and you've amounted the major to single comparisons. Whether you realize it or not you've been doing it the whole time.

Quote :

" nd as my roommate said to me. He's getting a degree in being able to bullshit about anything. I'm aware of all the humanity classes you take, and why you take them. But all they give you is a very general knowledge on the subjects."

We have electives the same as anyone else. Except, unlike other programs, most of us take some of these classes as critical and core classes to supplement a specialization in a field. There's nothing "general" about it, that's an assumptive and "general" argument with no actual specifics to it.

Quote :

" Funny, because I didn't say that. It's nothing but a straw man that you're trying to build up. I'm sure you know about straw man logic from your rhetoric class. In fact, if you actually read what you had quoted, you would have seen that I said that a degree is helpful. Hell, I don't need to tell you that a degree is only useful for getting a job. Why is that? Because most people assume that with a degree, you possess some type of knowledge on the subject you got the degree in."

Actually, we don't call that a strawman in rhetoric, because I never used any strawman arguments, I directly attacked your ethos as an effective source for information, because so far you've dug a hole of bullshit for yourself. And don't give us this bullshit that you "actually said the degree was helpful." You tucked that nice little statement in between the three quotes I gave up top--about the degree being worthless and lacking practicality. Your entire argument is based on fallacies, and instead of defending the actual points I've brought up, you're pointing to tiny things you may or may not have said.

Quote :

" With an English degree, is there any guarantee that the person who has the degree actually possess the skill set that is assumed to come with the degree? Is there a guarantee that they know how to write, or that they know logic, ect? With how subjective your field is, I find it hard to believe that any employer can see that degree and know that you possess the skill set that they assume you have."

You're doing it again. You must not realize that English majors have to pick specializations, and that their actual degree program is highly tailored to certain analytical skills. You're making an argument assuming that the consensus is that an English degree doesn't inherently mean anything--but, oh yea, it does! It means the same thing your degree means. What don't you understand about this? All classes have to be passed to gain credit. You either know it and know it well, or you slipped by. This works for EVERYONE. A degree IS a LIST OF THINGS YOU ARE SUPPOSED TO KNOW. If you don't, they move on to the next person.

Quote :

" It's not so much the subject matter that I find to be the problem. It's the grading. If you guys could come up with some way to add some objectivity to your grading, I could take it seriously. I think it would add more to the validity of the degree."

And you're basing this entire argument on "the degree is subjective". Individual grades are subjective, I said that myself, but apparently you don't understand the entire structure of how this works. The difference between an A and a B is subjective between one teacher and the next, GENERALLY, but that teacher maintains that organizational structure within his class and between students. That is basic education practice and it happens in every field, not just English. English professors have a "list" of what qualifies a paper for each grade--you have to meet these requirements to even place within that letter grade. I say it's subjective because the teachers DECIDE how that system is organized. This isn't just in English, it happens in every field that doesn't use multiple choice for every single test, so yea, it includes math. If you want to critique the educational system, just making fun of English majors isn't even close to the origin. It's not a black or white thing here. But hey, I don't blame you for not understanding layered concepts.

And furthermore, why do you think that an Engineering Degree means anything more than any other degree? It doesn't, and employeers know that. They know what it SHOULD mean, but it doesn't always. You also treat "rhetoric, logic, literature, editing" like they're all one skill set. In English there's specializations just like there is in Engineering. a Creative Writing major isn't fit for all the same jobs as an English Education or an English Rhetoric major, and a Chemical Engineer doesn't do all the same jobs as an Aerospace Engineer. You shouldn't operate this argument on the assumption that an English degree means nothing, because you haven't even come close to being able to conclude this.

4/13/2010 6:30:22 PM

Quote :

" he people looking at the degree don't know the professors. They don't know what each professors standards are. While I doubt the University will hire just anyone (and to my knowledge, there are some well known writers in the department), there are no solidified standards for which to base the degree on. Just the standards that each professor the student had."

Except your wrong. Because there's basic requirements for every course and every program. The specializations in English are not just hit or miss "take whatever you want" courses. You're saying that Teachers don't know anything and that our University is just letting them do whatever they want. It's a highly structured process, and they use the same educational processes that any other teacher uses.

Quote :

" And you're assuming that I don't know anything about your department."

You just said there's no structure requirements for our degree. You can go to our departmental website and see them all for yourself. You obviously know NOTHING about the department.

Quote :

" And regardless, this is not a valid defense against my claim that your degree has little value to it."

Yes it is. If you're making up what you think you know, then you know nothing about it, and your statements are invalidated. It's a perfect defense. Hell, I even backed up my arguments with actual knowledge about the department. Isn't that cool how this works.

Quote :

" This is not a valid defense against my attitude towards the degree being compromised of mostly subjective grading."

Yes it is!

Quote :

" This is not a valid defense against my proclamation that it is easy to get an English degree."

Oh gee, golly, it totally is! Whoa, whoooooa!

Quote :

" When you have a large amount of people capable of getting such a degree, the demand for it goes down. And I feel that a large part of the reason why many people are capable of getting an English degree is due to the subjectivity within the program itself."

Okay, look, first of all, that's not a proper example of supply and demand. Secondly, there's a large amount of people capable of getting the degree, and not nearly as much as the amount that graduate in Engineering. You think volume reflects quality? We already proven that many people can't do English that can do Engineering, and that many people can't do Engineering and can do English. The simple fact that different people have different abilities has nothing to do with this argument. Furthermore, it was the first thing discussed that the subjectivity within the English program actually makes it harder to do well in the course, because you can "never" do something perfect. It effectively caps GPA because teachers are relunctant to give As--because they have high standards. This isn't "fill out the formula and you win".

Quote :

" How often do you hear of a student having to drop out of Engineer, or an Engineer major failing a class? The same thing with other majors, like Biology, Chemistry, ect. Now look at your own College (CHASS) and ask yourself why you see people from other Colleges switching into CHASS. Is it because they want a challenge, or is it because they've already devoted 2 years of their life to college and they don't want to have nothing to show for it, so they switch in their CHASS or Business so they can get something."

Are you digging this hole for an Engineering project? It's getting pretty big. You completely left the realm of logic and reasoning. Tons of people fail in science related majors. Tons of people fail in humanities related majors. Tons of people switch colleges and majors. There is NOTHING to suggest that all these people become Humanities majors after they fail elsewhere, that is you applying the aforementioned stereotype and previously assumed knowledge of programs you know nothing about. I switched from a science major to English because I fucking love English. The reason I didn't switch sooner was because of the square and backwards ethics of the South, which tell you that if you're not building something with your hands then you're not making a living. It's a mindset that's infected many people, and you're showing it by this incredibly ignorant claim that people fail and become English majors, and then further claiming that there's nothing challenging about any of the majors. There's nothing logical or structured about these statements. You'd think that when you hire someone with a science/math degree they'd know something about logic, right? Apparently it doesn't mean anything, so I guess something you said today was right!

Quote :

" But if you want to refute what I'm saying, the worst way you can do it is by trying to attack me or claim that I'm using "stereotypes" and "assumptions" without saying anything else that will backup what you're saying."

I can literally put my finger on any paragraph you've written and find an assumption. Do you know what it means to make an assumption?

Quote :

" Again, here you go with putting words in my mouth. I haven't chastised or put anyone down for getting the degree. I've put down the English department and the degree, but I haven't attacked anyone, including you. If you want to go get an English degree, then by all means do so."

ENGLISH MAJOR TOLD ME A FUNNY JOKE... This whole thread is you attacking people with English degrees. You don't think that saying a degree or a department is impractical and their degree without worth isn't directly attacking those same people, the things that are a major part of their life and their career? Does that mean we can start insulting each other's mothers now, because I've wanted mention that your mother dropped you on your head this whole thread, but I thought it wouldn't be a direct insult to you, since it only involves your mother and stuff. I guess I can do that now.
Your mother dropped you on your head as a child.


We can play this game all day. English majors work to get their degree, same as any other program. It means exactly what it claims to mean. It's just as valuable as any other major. Furthermore, your major shouldn't be a point of discrimination in the adult world. Stop making threads like this. I might have to take a break from school if this keeps up, geesh!

Sorry I had to post twice, too many words.

4/13/2010 6:30:51 PM

Omgah! Engineer majors are total losers...


besides...it's education majors that are pretty much the shit!

4/13/2010 6:32:14 PM

Omgah! Engineer majors are total losers...


besides...it's education majors that are pretty much the shit!

4/13/2010 6:32:14 PM

dear Lucy,



<3,
EMCE

4/13/2010 6:32:50 PM

chillax, dude

have some

4/13/2010 6:32:54 PM

An English major walks into a bar...and starts waiting tables.

4/13/2010 6:37:11 PM

I'll tell you the real joke, that people have let merbig troll them for three pages. The thread was meant to troll from the title ... What a waste of three pages.

4/13/2010 6:37:59 PM

4/13/2010 6:38:04 PM

^^Yea, but now it's become a "who can argue the longest before lapsing into name-calling", so I guess it's whatever. I just wanted to make a point, but this thread proved to me that there's some Science and Math majors who don't hold this ridiculous attitude that it seems so many people hold.

simonn, StillFuchsia and lucyinthesky are my new heroes.

And EMCE is still cool.

And despite the arguing merbig is still my late-night homie.

[Edited on April 13, 2010 at 6:41 PM. Reason : dd]

4/13/2010 6:40:04 PM

has anyone ever not cut it/been able to make the grades/understand the material to stay in CHASS and switched to engineering?

sure people have different skills and all that but there is definitely seems like a one way street on the changing of majors and if people just had different skills then it would be more of a two way street. Therefore there must be something else at work like difficulty.

these threads always suck me in somehow..

just wanted to add something to the whole drop out thing mentioned earlier..

Quote :

" Eric's old frat brother dropped out and is now making it look like he is making bank as the CEO of a pretty nifty website decided to helping kids find a college that fit them the best"

he may or may not be making anything.

[Edited on April 13, 2010 at 6:50 PM. Reason : .]

4/13/2010 6:47:41 PM

I'd probably hold hands with Netstorm...

4/13/2010 6:49:17 PM

^Believe it or not, over half the people I knew when I started in the English department, especially my creative writing peers, have switched into Accounting, Engineering, and Economics. I thought it was weird to, but the point is that it happens a lot more than people realize, because this stereotype has made it so that no one talks about it.

I know it makes it sound like English majors are segregated and have to use separate water fountains, but that's really how some people have treated it on this forum.

4/13/2010 6:50:45 PM

I have nothing against english majors.

4/13/2010 6:51:37 PM

You posted too quickly.

The requirements of the cease-fire require a mandatory posting period!

4/13/2010 6:53:32 PM

oic

well, I'd still probably hold your hand (no homo)

4/13/2010 6:54:09 PM

Quote :

"I know it makes it sound like English majors are segregated and have to use separate water fountains, but that's really how some people have treated it on this forum."

This doesn't happen anymore. They were able to engineer a civil rights movement.

4/13/2010 6:57:03 PM