Quote :

"I have nothing against english majors."

So if I told you I was an English major and that you had a nice body, you wouldn't hold it against me?

4/13/2010 6:58:28 PM

early nominee for most unassuming thread of the year

4/13/2010 6:59:48 PM

^^ I'd make you read conduct literature.... as I plowed you

4/13/2010 7:00:23 PM

What about English Education majors?

4/13/2010 7:03:30 PM

^^ I would read Canterbury Tales aloud in Middle English as you plowed me.

it doth be hot in here

4/13/2010 7:05:45 PM

Quote :

""...it's very easy to get a degree." "...the degree doesn't really teach you much of anything practical," "...it seems like a waste of money.""

1) Just because it's easy, doesn't mean it's useless. It's easy to drive a car, does it mean that it's useless? Hardly.

2)I'm going to quote vinylbandit here:

Quote :

"The idea that "practical" is synonymous with "useful" is not an uncommon one."

What he said was very true. Looks like you fell into the trap he described.

3) There are plenty of thinks that I think are a waste of money, yet provide some use. I simply don't think an English degree is the best use of money. Obviously, it's simply my opinion.

Again, no where did I even really imply that I said it was "useless." And you even quoted me where I said something to the contrary.

Quote :

"You're using the same argument as "I never asked him to kill her, I only asked her to bound her and shoot her in the head, I never said anything about killing." "

Hardly. You're just trying to put words in my mouth. That is all. Hell, I never even said that you can't get a decent job with an English degree.

Quote :

"You don't think people fail English classes? Are you that dense?"

What does it take to fail an English class? Not doing the work? You simply can't write? And what reason would an English professor have to fail a student? It's all subjective.

Quote :

"You were talking about practicality, and degrees being worth their money. Any English teacher would fail you for the analysis you're putting forth in this thread. The career advantages of a degree certainly have something to do with them being worth the effort."

I'm sure an English teacher would fail me for putting down their degree. I never said that there was no advantage to not having a degree. But I think that if you're going to put down your own money to get a degree (or someone elses), that getting something practical would be a better use of it. And saying that an "English teacher would fail you for the analysis you're putting forth" does nothing to dispute my analysis. And if anything, the analysis is nothing more than an opinion. You obviously feel like it is worth the money. Good for you.

Quote :

"You've been undermining English the entire time, and you've amounted the major to single comparisons. Whether you realize it or not you've been doing it the whole time."

I'm sorry I didn't focus on the other elements of the bullshit classes you guys also take within CHASS.

Quote :

"Actually, we don't call that a strawman in rhetoric, because I never used any strawman arguments, I directly attacked your ethos as an effective source for information, because so far you've dug a hole of bullshit for yourself."

No. You tried building up a strawman, and you keep trying by saying that I said something I did not. It's you're the one who's reading what I'm saying and drawing incorrect conclusions from it. It seems like you don't understand what the word "useless" means. I suggest you look it up.

Quote :

"Your entire argument is based on fallacies, and instead of defending the actual points I've brought up, you're pointing to tiny things you may or may not have said."

I do address your points. It is you who continues to dodge mine.

Quote :

"You must not realize that English majors have to pick specializations, and that their actual degree program is highly tailored to certain analytical skills."

AGAIN YOU DRAW AN INCORRECT ASSUMPTION!

Quote :

"All classes have to be passed to gain credit. You either know it and know it well, or you slipped by."

AGAIN! YOU DON'T FUCKING UNDERSTAND WHAT I'M SAYING. I FULLY UNDERSTAND THAT YOU HAVE TO GET CREDIT FOR THE CLASS. WHAT YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND IS THAT THE BASIS ON WHICH YOU RECEIVE THE CREDIT WITHIN THE DEPARTMENT IS [B]SUBJECTIVE[/B]! TO WHAT OBJECTIVE STANDARDS TO YOU HAVE TO MEET TO GET THE CREDIT? WHAT IS IT THAT YOU ARE [B]REQUIRED[/B] TO KNOW AND HOW CAN YOU PROVE THAT YOU KNOW IT?

Quote :

"English professors have a "list" of what qualifies a paper for each grade"

AND WHAT ARE THE LISTS BASED ON? HOW THE PROFESSOR IS FEELING? In ME, it's based on the requirements set forth by the department so that the department can maintain its accreditation with a national organization that sets standards that colleges nationwide have to meet. A student from Clemson is expected to know the same material as a student from NCSU. Can you say the same for YOUR department?

Quote :

"And furthermore, why do you think that an Engineering Degree means anything more than any other degree?"

Ahh, another "fallacy" that you're trying to say that I believe in so that you can knock it down like a strawman. Funny, because I never said that I think an Engineering Degree means more than any other degree. I do think it means more than an English degree, not because of the material, but because of the lack of objectivity in the grading within your field.

Quote :

" In English there's specializations just like there is in Engineering. a Creative Writing major isn't fit for all the same jobs as an English Education or an English Rhetoric major, and a Chemical Engineer doesn't do all the same jobs as an Aerospace Engineer. You shouldn't operate this argument on the assumption that an English degree means nothing, because you haven't even come close to being able to conclude this."

You have it in you mind that I my opinions are based on the actual subject matter.

Quote :

"The specializations in English are not just hit or miss "take whatever you want" courses."

Nor did I say that it was.

Quote :

"It's a highly structured process, and they use the same educational processes that any other teacher uses. "

So you're telling me that your English teachers set their standards based on a national organization, and that for a given piece of writing within the same class, the professors in your department that happen to teach the same class would give it the same grade? Are you telling me that there is no chance of there being a major discrepancy between the professors?

Quote :

"You just said there's no structure requirements for our degree. You can go to our departmental website and see them all for yourself. You obviously know NOTHING about the department. "

You're right in that you guys do have curriculums for each concentration. But what I meant was that for each class, asides from a curriculum, is there any objective measurement of a students knowledge or abilities? It goes back to my question about multiple professors teaching the same class. Will a student get approximately the same grade? Are they expected to display the same abilities? Are these abilities the same for professor to professor?

Quote :

"Yes it is!"

No, it's not. Not unless you provide some type of explanation.

Quote :

"It's a mindset that's infected many people, and you're showing it by this incredibly ignorant claim that people fail and become English majors, and then further claiming that there's nothing challenging about any of the majors. There's nothing logical or structured about these statements"

As I said, it's nothing more than my opinion.

Quote :

"ENGLISH MAJOR TOLD ME A FUNNY JOKE... This whole thread is you attacking people with English degrees. You don't think that saying a degree or a department is impractical and their degree without worth isn't directly attacking those same people, the things that are a major part of their life and their career? Does that mean we can start insulting each other's mothers now, because I've wanted mention that your mother dropped you on your head this whole thread, but I thought it wouldn't be a direct insult to you, since it only involves your mother and stuff. I guess I can do that now. Your mother dropped you on your head as a child."

First of all, it started as a joke. I guess your funny bone is broken. And I'm also not bothered with any insults you want to throw out about my choice in degree or about my mother.

Quote :

"English majors work to get their degree, same as any other program."

Never said they don't put in work. Again, the contents and requirements of the classes have never really been a point of contention.

Quote :

"It's just as valuable as any other major."

I think the piece of paper is not as valuable as other majors. Again, not because of the content, but because of the lack of objectivity.

Quote :

"Stop making threads like this. I might have to take a break from school if this keeps up, geesh!"

If you can't take criticism about your major, then you have some personal issues you need to work out. If what I say bothers you, then you perhaps you should look to within as to why it does bother you. If you said that my degree is worthless or that it sucks or that it's no good, it would not bother me. I know in my heart that isn't true. If what I'm saying bothers you, then perhaps there is a part of you that believes part of what I'm saying.

[Edited on April 13, 2010 at 7:51 PM. Reason : And despite the arguing merbig is still my late-night homie.]

[Edited on April 13, 2010 at 7:51 PM. Reason : Damn straight!]

4/13/2010 7:50:11 PM

^I'd let you interpret my phallic symbol as I plowed it into you, since apparently you're good with phallic things.

Or EMCE, whoever's closer.

EDIT: Oh, it's not lucy above me anymore.

[Edited on April 13, 2010 at 7:51 PM. Reason : d]

4/13/2010 7:51:06 PM

^

4/13/2010 7:52:03 PM

I even wrote it in my journal today. An English major told me a very funny joke!

4/13/2010 7:52:34 PM

....and now, merbig is sandwiched between us....

making a lot of cockmeat to gobble on.

4/13/2010 7:53:27 PM

wtf? Why have all my comments been over looked?


WHAT ABOUT AN ENGLISH EDUCATION MAJOR?!?!?!

4/13/2010 7:55:02 PM

Quote :

"You have it in you mind that I my opinions are based on the actual subject matter. "

I'll leave it at that. I've proven to myself (and to others) the points that were necessary. I'm already getting flak for feeding the trolls. If you're not going to seriously combat the issue then it's just bitterness for bitterness sake, and I still want to crawl in bed with you tonight and snuggle.

4/13/2010 7:55:44 PM

We need someone to teach our elementary school children to be coherent douchebags.

4/13/2010 7:56:19 PM

^hey! I'm going into middle school....

Middle school language arts and science to be exact

4/13/2010 7:57:04 PM

Public or private?

4/13/2010 7:57:49 PM

Quote :

" If you can't take criticism about your major just let it go and feel the need to write tomes to put down other people's choices, then you have some personal issues you need to work out ... "

4/13/2010 7:59:19 PM

^I want those privates.

THIS SANDWICHING KEEPS HAPPENING.

[Edited on April 13, 2010 at 8:00 PM. Reason : d]

4/13/2010 7:59:28 PM

Quote :

"Public or private?"

Public...duuur...I actually want to be able to afford to live

4/13/2010 8:05:01 PM

Quote :

"he may or may not be making anything."

has something changed? last time Eric saw him it was going really well...

4/13/2010 10:01:43 PM

I guess just one final thing with all the bullshit cut out.

Quote :

"I've proven to myself (and to others) the points that were necessary."

You still never really addressed the point regarding the subjectivity within the grading and how the lack of objectivity hurts the worth of your grade (in my opinion). You said that your department is structured, and I certainly believe you. But you still never addressed my point about how 2 different teachers teaching 2 different sections for the same class can end up giving you two different grades for the same work, or at least take off points in the same areas and what not. I know you can say that similarly, teachers can decide how much to take off for errors, but there is no question or point of contention about where the error is, if that makes sense.

The fact that one teacher could read the story and think that your character development is excellent while another could think that it's horrible shows me that there grades are too subjective IMO. In turn, I think this hurts the value of the degree.

4/13/2010 10:12:32 PM

At least now we have something to look at.

4/13/2010 10:48:52 PM

OMG Spontaneous. I'm officially in love with you. BC every time I see this thread I think, "Veronica told me a very funny joke today..."




Marry me?

^ well done, sir. I like.

[Edited on April 13, 2010 at 10:58 PM. Reason : n]

4/13/2010 10:55:25 PM

^^ Do want.

4/13/2010 10:55:54 PM

when did this blow up?

4/13/2010 10:58:01 PM

^^^ You got it, babe!

4/13/2010 10:58:43 PM

^^I made a serious post, and when I woke up the next morning MAGIC HAD GROWN.

Quote :

"You still never really addressed the point regarding the subjectivity within the grading and how the lack of objectivity hurts the worth of your grade (in my opinion). You said that your department is structured, and I certainly believe you. But you still never addressed my point about how 2 different teachers teaching 2 different sections for the same class can end up giving you two different grades for the same work, or at least take off points in the same areas and what not. I know you can say that similarly, teachers can decide how much to take off for errors, but there is no question or point of contention about where the error is, if that makes sense."

There CAN be a difference, but usually two good teachers will give the same paper the same grade. The point was that there was room for there to be a difference. The reason I say this grading is harder on the students (and it's been shown that it is, i.e. why I said it was criticized) is because to balance the fact that they're might be differences, they all just grade "hard". This whole system, though, is regulated, the teachers structure their grading system, and the whole thing is kept consistent. It basically amounts to "some teachers are different than others", and that's definitely not exclusive to English. In fact, subjectivity isn't exclusive to English, it's to all Humanities, as I already told you. Qualified people and consistent methods makes it more than acceptable. I don't know what else to tell you if you don't get it, and frankly the discussion isn't worth it anymore. If someone has a better way to explain it, they can give it a shot, but I think the steam is gone from this thread.

4/13/2010 11:09:31 PM

^^ Did you say blow up?

4/13/2010 11:09:42 PM

Four pages of shit no one will care about once they've been out of school working for a couple of years

4/14/2010 8:36:51 AM

thread is tl;dr

too much troll food

4/14/2010 9:35:42 AM