5

7/31/2008 10:05:04 AM

i should get a rocket launcher for home defense

7/31/2008 10:11:46 AM

Unlike some of you people, who seem to be looking looking for an excuse to legally murder someone, I don't consider a guy just standing in the middle of my living room with his hands at his side to be an "immediate danger."

Of course if he reaches for a weapon or comes at me I would shoot him, but if not I would try to resolve the situation without stains on the carpet or having to spend time in front of a grand jury.

Just because you are "within your rights" to kill someone doesn't mean you have to or should.

[Edited on July 31, 2008 at 10:14 AM. Reason : ]

7/31/2008 10:14:22 AM

All I know is thank god I live in south carolina.

We have no duty to retreat, in addition to the castle doctrine.

7/31/2008 10:14:46 AM

if you want to stop him without killing him, i'd just shoot him below the waste with this bad boy.

7/31/2008 10:15:36 AM

Quote :

" No need to kill. I'm all about teaching life lessons."

I guess you're all about going to jail for a LONG time.

Quote :

"then kick him around a little while you tie him up with cat5 cable and holler 'citizens arrest!' at the top of your lungs..."

Quote :

"Assuming they haven't started shooting at me get, I'd keep the gun trained on them, tell them to very slowly kneel, knees spread, and be stock still with their arms parallel to the ground, then I'd call 911 and politely ask them to have the police haul ass to my house. If they give me any grief, I'll aim for some non-critical body part. That should get their attention."

no such thing as citizens arrest, that's some barney fife shit. it will get you arrested with jail time for brandishing your weapon, unlawful detainment/kidnapping, and other charges.

Quote :

"you have no idea what weapons they might have or what their intentions are. you have a right to defend your house and your family"

true, if someone is in the act of breaking in, you can shoot through the door to stop the threat. you can be sure that if they choose to break in while the dwelling is occupied, that their intentions aren't the greatest.

Quote :

"but in order for it to be imminent danger they have to be coming at you with the intention to kill you (a weapon in hand is a damn good indication of that). It's a nitpick, but it can make a difference."

no, they just have to come at you. you have no duty to see if they are armed. the mere fact that they are going on the attack is enough reason to draw and fire. you have no duty to retreat in your own home. you feel a threat, you neutralize it. calling 911 and having them on the line or on speakerphone the entire time helps your case.

JBaz, posting an AR15 won't really help unless you live in the country. Over penetration will most likely injure or kill someone else, which you WILL be responsible for. ALWAYS know what is behind your target.



[Edited on July 31, 2008 at 10:17 AM. Reason : e]

7/31/2008 10:15:47 AM

^but where to draw the line between "simple assault" and serious bodily harm - with regard to someone charging you (and no weapon is visible)? what if that person is half your size? you cannot shoot someone over a case of simple assault (iirc, that is the term), correct? [/devils adv.]

[Edited on July 31, 2008 at 10:21 AM. Reason : -]

7/31/2008 10:20:49 AM

i shoot mf'ers for looking at me funny

7/31/2008 10:29:19 AM

^^ that is kind of the point

and why we have things like....lawyers.

7/31/2008 11:05:08 AM

because you don't know if it's gonna be simple assault or serious bodily harm...so if you feel like it might end up being the latter...

7/31/2008 11:06:52 AM

lawyers are such scumbags most of the time though =/

7/31/2008 11:06:56 AM

Quote :

"Unlike some of you people, who seem to be looking looking for an excuse to legally murder someone, I don't consider a guy just standing in the middle of my living room with his hands at his side to be an "immediate danger.""

i know this is getting really redundant, but I'll hit it one more time. If someone breaks into a locked occupied home, in the middle of the night, i consider it to be imminent danger. the "danger" in the situation is not knowing what this stranger has broken into your house for, and the fact that he broke in KNOWING that the house was occupied, typically means he would do you harm if confronted.

[Edited on July 31, 2008 at 11:12 AM. Reason : a]

7/31/2008 11:12:15 AM

^^ then take a stand. boycott. don't use one if you need one

7/31/2008 11:13:29 AM

Quote :

"lawyers are such scumbags most of the time though =/"

you really don't know what you're talking about. most lawyers are trying to help people from being screwed by the legal system..or hell, half of them just do shit like real estate law.. that's hardly scumbag'ish

7/31/2008 11:14:47 AM

that's true, but there are a number of real shithead lawyers out there.

the one person on the planet whom i truly hate--like, if he got dragged to death chained to a truck, i'd fly to his funeral to piss on his grave--is a dipshit lawyer.

7/31/2008 11:18:51 AM

agreed

i hate the bastard ones.. but i've met a bunch and most of them really aren't bad.

we've got one local guy that's the stereotypical scum of a lawyer..charges the highest fees around, forgets to show up at court sometimes then acts like it wasn't his fault, won't give money back..just shit like that.

7/31/2008 11:21:38 AM

Quote :

"i know this is getting really redundant, but I'll hit it one more time. If someone breaks into a locked occupied home, in the middle of the night, i consider it to be imminent danger. the "danger" in the situation is not knowing what this stranger has broken into your house for, and the fact that he broke in KNOWING that the house was occupied, typically means he would do you harm if confronted."

I think this is the difference between a "dangerous person" and a "dangerous situation"

The person may have a hostile intent when breaking into a house at night, but while held up at gunpoint he is for the most part not a threat.

7/31/2008 11:22:52 AM

Quote :

"because you don't know if it's gonna be simple assault or serious bodily harm...so if you feel like it might end up being the latter..."

yeah, that's the other side to it, and there's never going to be enough time to decide until it's happening or has already happened.

Quote :

"The person may have a hostile intent when breaking into a house at night, but while held up at gunpoint he is for the most part not a threat."

there's no fucking way you can say that. if someone enters an occupied dwelling, chances are they are armed as well. then it depends on who has the fastest reaction and better aim


[Edited on July 31, 2008 at 11:30 AM. Reason : -]

7/31/2008 11:27:49 AM

Quote :

"there's no fucking way you can say that. if someone enters an occupied dwelling, chances are they are armed as well. then it depends on who has the fastest reaction and better aim"

I'm working under the assumption that you have the gun already pointed at their chest, and if they have a gun it's in their pocket or holster, and not in their hand. Reaction time is a non issue unless you are too slow to move your index finger an inch as they reach into their pocket, draw their gun, point it at you, and fire.

It seems to work for cops for the most part.

7/31/2008 11:40:21 AM

some of you people must have never been in a fight or any kind of aggressive situation

if you honestly think you'll have time to think, you're wrong

first, you'd be shocked, then react on instinct.

saying get on the ground is ok, but you better be far enough away that the robber can't turn and bumrush you... you'd be expecting him to comply and lay down like in all of the movies and end up dead

basically either call the cops and hide in a closet or go out ready to fire... you aren't a trained officer and you'll just be putting yourself (an innocent person) in danger for some lowlife piece of shit.


ps. Is anyone taking into account that this guy knows where you live, and is going to be very pissed when he gets out of jail? might not be a big deal for college students who move around a lot, but if you have a permanent home and a family, something to think about.

[Edited on July 31, 2008 at 12:40 PM. Reason : .]

7/31/2008 12:39:01 PM

Quote :

"basically either call the cops and hide in a closet or go out ready to fire... you aren't a trained officer and you'll just be putting yourself (an innocent person) in danger for some lowlife piece of shit."

that about sums it up

7/31/2008 12:42:14 PM

btdt

7/31/2008 1:15:38 PM

Quote :

"Unlike some of you people, who seem to be looking looking for an excuse to legally murder someone, I don't consider a guy just standing in the middle of my living room with his hands at his side to be an "immediate danger.""

That's a really unlikely scenario. Most thieves will break in when it is obvious you are not at home. No cars in the driveway, no lights on, no answer when they knock.

The ones that come in while you are there tend to do things very differently. I've known two people who were involved in home invasions. The difference between defending yourself and being a victim has more to do with whether it takes them one kick or four kicks to come through your door and what you choose to do with the time your door frame affords you.

Even if they sneak in, what are the odds that you are going to find them in the middle of a room that is well enough lit for you to see that they are unarmed? It's going to be a dark and confusing situation.

[Edited on July 31, 2008 at 1:27 PM. Reason : s]

7/31/2008 1:24:30 PM

Quote :

"ps. Is anyone taking into account that this guy knows where you live, and is going to be very pissed when he gets out of jail? might not be a big deal for college students who move around a lot, but if you have a permanent home and a family, something to think about. "

this is something I've often thought about

7/31/2008 1:58:52 PM

i don't think i've posted here before
so fuck it

7/31/2008 2:19:48 PM

Quote :

"ps. Is anyone taking into account that this guy knows where you live, and is going to be very pissed when he gets out of jail? might not be a big deal for college students who move around a lot, but if you have a permanent home and a family, something to think about."

I have as well.




P.S. I love the phrase "NEUTRALIZE THE SITUATION"

7/31/2008 2:30:59 PM

i actually had a guy try to rob me once while i was carrying a gun. he had a knife.. and he apparently thought that the fact that he was like 25 feet from me meant he could cover that ground... anyways long story short. he came at me i pulled the gun fired two shots way the fuck wide because i'm a terrible shot he ran apparently after pissing himself.. and i got in the car and drove my ass home where i got mega fucked up to deal with what just happened.

7/31/2008 5:57:01 PM

how did you get a CCL if you are that bad of a shot? i thought the CCL required range time

7/31/2008 5:58:20 PM

yeah... at a paper. not a black dude with a knife coming at you in a dark parking lot when you've got an ounce of pot in your shoe



i was a tad nervous

7/31/2008 5:59:54 PM

that makes sense, i just thought you meant that you are a terrible shot overall

7/31/2008 6:01:26 PM

i couldn't tell you how good a shot i am. i've fired maybe six shots in the seven years since that happened.

7/31/2008 6:02:15 PM

i'd like to think I could be composed enough to fire several center mass shots if threatened, but it is hard to say it for certain when adrenaline kicks in and you are affraid for your life.

7/31/2008 6:04:32 PM

i aimed for his head. that was my first mistake. but to tell you the truth i'm glad i missed. it doesn't make you feel like a badass to defend yourself. it sort of makes you a bit more hesitant

7/31/2008 6:05:19 PM

at least you scared the piss out of him and that took care of the situation

..could have been much worse had he kept coming at you regardless of whether he was shot or not. i'm sure you've played the scenarios out plenty of times though so i wont bother

7/31/2008 6:06:50 PM

i definitely don't think it would make me feel badass to kill someone. i would do what i have to do to protect myself and my family, but I am sure that actually taking a life would be something that you would really never get over

[Edited on July 31, 2008 at 6:07 PM. Reason : o]

7/31/2008 6:06:57 PM

i really hope that i could and will never know until faced with the situation

7/31/2008 6:07:33 PM

good ole deacon blvd. lol

7/31/2008 6:08:09 PM

i know for a fact that if the scenario in the OP actually did go down and I shot someone breaking into my house, i would almost definitely have to move. I would never feel safe in the house again, and in fact, it would probably take a very long time for me to be able to get a good night's sleep anywhere.

7/31/2008 6:09:12 PM

agreed

nice 33333 post lol

7/31/2008 6:10:06 PM

i just came back myself to get 21000

7/31/2008 6:10:33 PM

DAMMIT, I MISSED MY PALINDROME!!!!

7/31/2008 6:13:47 PM

Quote :

"no, he's in your living room to preach the word of God"

he can go ahead and preach it to God himself

7/31/2008 6:29:35 PM

Quote :

"not a black dude with a knife coming at you in a dark parking lot when you've got an ounce of pot in your shoe i was a tad nervous "

it's a good thing you missed. drugs and concealed handguns combined result in lengthy prison sentences.

7/31/2008 7:13:53 PM

i am quite certain if he would have actually hit the dude he would have ditched the pot

7/31/2008 7:23:31 PM

it's possible, and it's also possible that one of the cops that showed up at the scene might have been a K-9 unit that would have caught the scent on his sock and also sniffed out where he hid the pot.

[Edited on July 31, 2008 at 7:27 PM. Reason : cops don't fuck around when there are dead bodies around.]

7/31/2008 7:27:33 PM

I am quite certain they would have been too worried about the dead black dude that tried to rob him to worry about pot scented socks

7/31/2008 7:28:45 PM

^ i wouldn't be. the dogs dont know OMG ITS A DEAD DUDE. that just do a damn good job at smelling things like ya know, pot

[Edited on July 31, 2008 at 7:45 PM. Reason : t]

7/31/2008 7:45:10 PM

To the OP:

It depends on a number of circumstances. In NC you can legally shoot someone (Or use deadly force in general) that is in the process of breaking in. However, once they've stepped inside and are no longer in the process of breaking in, you go back to the "4 prong test" for justified self defense. If in fact the situation you're in would pass said test, then by all means shoot. If I were fearing for my life legitimately then sure, I'd do it. I'm sure it wouldn't be the most pleasant thing in the world to do but you do what has to be done in that moment.

"4 Prong Test:"

1. You are in imminent danger of death, grievous bodily harm or serious sexual assault.
2. A person of ordinary firmness would agree.
3. You did not instigate the confrontation.
4. You are not using excessive force.

Basically if you're truly certain that 1 has been clearly satisfied and you didn't instigate it, you may use deadly force.

The incident raven mentioned is a prime example. Unfortunately having the drugs would have caused a major problem had he hit the bastard, because he illegally possessed the handgun due to the fact that he had it during the commission of a felony (I am almost certain that an ounce of marijuana is in fact a felony, but I might be wrong there). Even if it isn't a felony, it was still illegal to possess the firearm while carrying marijuana. A lot of people would have tried to turn it into a drug related crime as well and it would probably have ended up being a huge mess. Thank god you didn't hit him and lets just hope you scared his ass so bad he'll never do it again. Unfortunately, that's wishful thinking I'd imagine.

[Edited on July 31, 2008 at 9:38 PM. Reason : ]

7/31/2008 9:37:32 PM

I think possession of less than 1.5 ounces of pot in and of itself is a misdemeanor in NC, but the simultaneous possession of both the drugs and a handgun I believe qualifies it as a felony.

7/31/2008 10:58:14 PM

nah i just had bought my weed and was taking it home. i was locking the back door to my bar and grill and leaving and i guess he thought i had the cash on me.

like i'm gonna walk around with that much cash in east winston at night... what the fuck ever.

7/31/2008 11:06:34 PM