5

The number of members on the death panel

[Edited on March 22, 2010 at 10:09 AM. Reason : ]

3/22/2010 10:09:13 AM

In addition to being this:

Quote :

"As soon as health care passes, the American people will see immediate benefits. The legislation will: * Prohibit pre-existing condition exclusions for children in all new plans; * Provide immediate access to insurance for uninsured Americans who are uninsured because of a pre-existing condition through a temporary high-risk pool; * Prohibit dropping people from coverage when they get sick in all individual plans; * Lower seniors prescription drug prices by beginning to close the donut hole; * Offer tax credits to small businesses to purchase coverage; * Eliminate lifetime limits and restrictive annual limits on benefits in all plans; * Require plans to cover an enrollee’s dependent children until age 26; * Require new plans to cover preventive services and immunizations without cost-sharing; * Ensure consumers have access to an effective internal and external appeals process to appeal new insurance plan decisions; * Require premium rebates to enrollees from insurers with high administrative expenditures and require public disclosure of the percent of premiums applied to overhead costs. * By enacting these provisions right away, and others over time, we will be able to lower costs for everyone and give all Americans and small businesses more control over their health care choices."

Last nights vote was also this:

Quote :

"House boosts college aid for students in need By JIM KUHNHENN Associated Press Writer updated 11:44 p.m. ET, Sun., March. 21, 2010 WASHINGTON - Riding the coattails of a historic health care vote, the House on Sunday also passed a broad reorganization of college aid that affects millions of students and moves President Barack Obama closer to winning yet another of his top domestic policies. The bill rewrites a four-decades-old student loan program, eliminating its reliance on private lenders and uses the savings to direct $36 billion in new spending to Pell Grants for students in financial need."

3/22/2010 10:09:27 AM

[Edited on March 22, 2010 at 10:10 AM. Reason : Ø]

3/22/2010 10:09:57 AM

lulz

3/22/2010 10:10:59 AM

3/22/2010 10:17:43 AM

I love seeing people that have never paid for their own health insurance or paid much in the way of taxes happy about this bill.

3/22/2010 10:28:21 AM

racist

3/22/2010 10:29:46 AM

You mean the poor?

3/22/2010 10:29:53 AM

We've avoided another depression, the Health Care Reform campaign promise is delivered, the student loan reform promise is delivered, the president advocates for science in our schools, he support stem cell research, the president ordered a return to the Army Field Manual rather than enhanced torture techniques, the president signed the Lilly Ledbetter Fair Pay Act, he signed a bill to expand veteran benefits, he signed kids tobacco legislation, he signed a major land protection act, and we finally have a time-table (a word fiercely opposed by the last administration) for getting out of Iraq.

BEST

PRESIDENT

EVER

3/22/2010 10:30:29 AM

Dear Supplanter,

Please to lay off the koolaid.

Kthnx

3/22/2010 10:33:30 AM

^At least, best president of our adult lives so far?

3/22/2010 10:35:20 AM

^^No shit.


^ Uh, so better than W. Bush? Talk about damning with faint praise.

[Edited on March 22, 2010 at 10:36 AM. Reason : ]

3/22/2010 10:35:54 AM

dude you're comparing obama to bush at that point

i'm just saying...... i'm a democrat, i work for em all that good stuff - and i cannot get behind this health care bill. people on both sides of the aisle need to stop blindly accepting what their parties feed them.

3/22/2010 10:37:24 AM

Quote :

"people on both sides of the aisle need to stop blindly accepting what their parties feed them."

agreed.

3/22/2010 10:40:32 AM

Quote :

"dude you're comparing obama to bush at that point"

That was the joke...

3/22/2010 10:42:13 AM

Supplanter =

3/22/2010 10:48:49 AM

Quote :

"i'm just saying...... i'm a democrat, i work for em all that good stuff - and i cannot get behind this health care bill. "

Wow, why don't you like it?

3/22/2010 10:53:24 AM

because it's a half assed attempt at trying to reform things. this shouldn't have been something that was tried to get done in one bill. no, it should've been incremental change. the dems bit off more than they could chew, promised the world to americans and they failed.

yes, there are some benefits in the bill - but overall, i think they did a shitty job.

3/22/2010 11:00:26 AM

it should've been an incremental change so it would've been easier to deny coverage to more people over an even longer period

3/22/2010 11:04:03 AM

yes, that's exactly what i'm saying.

3/22/2010 11:06:28 AM

it should've been an incremental change so we could've killed more of the bits we didn't like (such as dependent care)

3/22/2010 11:07:16 AM

anyway re: "half-assed" maybe the republicans should've brought their half to the table and put in that work son

3/22/2010 11:09:10 AM

anyway what ARE you saying

3/22/2010 11:09:34 AM

zomg, triple post...lock, suspend, terminate

3/22/2010 11:11:52 AM

The LOL was brought in the circus/tea party video.

3/22/2010 11:17:23 AM

i want a premie to repost the sophie moon and zafira porn from page 4

3/22/2010 11:21:09 AM

IF you vote deomcrat - you are a pussy.

Also - for you that support this clusterfuck - give me an example of a well run, efficient government agency?

3/22/2010 11:22:42 AM

^x3 for you:


Most towns that do free downtown wifi services pass a cost-benefit analysis and can do it cheaper than priv orgs to provide the same service. And a lot of what government does is non-excludable so its service effectiveness isn't anywhere near the same realm as private industry profits and thus the frame of references many people who don't know much about government is apples to oranges. The army seems to run a pretty tight ship. NCSU is one of my favorite public universities. And I gotta say, I'm a fan of Pell Grants. Public libraries have served us well for a long time, and public cybraries are starting to come into their own these days too. On the whole we're a lot healthier thanks to having the FDA do their job effectively rather aiming for profit. North Carolina has consistently better roads because they are run by a state agency that ensures more even roads across the state than most states. Places like Georgia have municipalities in charge of roads, and a lot of contracting out, and rural areas don't come close to the quality that a state government agency does in delivering decent roads across the state. We also depend on a state government agency to do most of education funding, which while imperfect gives us decent schools across the state as compared to places like texas that depend on municipality funding and private schools so you have some really rich schools, and some really poor schools that put even the worst school in Goldsboro to shame. The LGC has on the whole made our state relatively financially stronger and more stable because of its existence. I'm sure we get more CAFR's than most.

On the other hand, the more we outsource prisons to private companies, the more we build the corporation lobbying arm for stricter 3 strikes you're out, and anti-marijuana laws. The private sector is right in so many situations and is the engine of our economy. But some services benefit from regulation (heck the stock market could have benefited from more a few years ago is probably the most obvious example to prevent market failure), and with no public option included in the legislation, this isn't a government run option.

[Edited on March 22, 2010 at 11:52 AM. Reason : .]

3/22/2010 11:23:54 AM

Quote :

"IF you vote deomcrat - you are a pussy. "

IF you vote rbublcan - you are a religious nut job.

that was fun

3/22/2010 11:23:55 AM

Quote :

"Also - for you that support this clusterfuck - give me an example of a well run, efficient government agency?"

NSF

3/22/2010 11:25:09 AM

part of my research is NSF-funded...not sure if that's in their favor or not

3/22/2010 11:26:15 AM

From what I understand this bill is not supporting federal funding abortions....right?

3/22/2010 1:09:08 PM

^ correct

3/22/2010 1:10:02 PM

While the bill is nigh neutral on abortion, the anti-abortion people wear afraid this would lead to more abortion, and the pro-abortion people were afraid this would restrict it.

So in the end the president calmed their fears on both sides by agreeing to issue an executive order saying things will be just as they were before on abortion (aka the Hyde rule is still in effect & abortion is still legal).

3/22/2010 1:20:21 PM

And I think that's where it should stay

3/22/2010 1:22:08 PM

Can someone explain to me how this is going to cause the quality of health care to go down?

This is something else I keep hearing and I'm not sure I understand how this will effect the quality of health care out there.

3/22/2010 6:10:44 PM

several arguments for that



one big thing is that more people will be going to the doctor


another thing is that this will regulate what doctors can charge for their services, so it will hurt competetion that quality variances will make (which will ultimately make doctors not care as much)

3/22/2010 6:14:02 PM

Is the government going to start running hospitals? Or will hospitals still be run the same way they have always been run?

(These are for real questions, not trying to play devils advocate or anything, I am really curious about this)

[Edited on March 22, 2010 at 6:25 PM. Reason : ]

3/22/2010 6:24:44 PM

didn't this bill have over 1000 pages? (i heard somewhere 2000?)

3/22/2010 6:32:30 PM

Yeah there are over 2000...crazy stuff

3/22/2010 6:33:08 PM

3/22/2010 6:35:41 PM

Quote :

"one big thing is that more people will be going to the doctor "

this is ridic.

3/22/2010 6:38:11 PM

You know, there was a point in time in which you could only receive an education if you could afford to pay for it. Then the government got together and said "hey lets make it mandatory for every US citizen to be in school until they are at least 16 and every person will have to pay taxes to help send these kids to school because ultimatly it will better our society if everyone has some sort of education"

3/22/2010 6:42:26 PM

i'm just stating the argument that has been put out there



it is being said that you won't be able to walk in and get service because everyone and their brother will be going in for little things now that they have health insurance (when before most people wouldn't go in unless they really needed it). The common argument to this point is that people will get checked out for things before they become a serious problem, which will open up more inpatient beds. the counter argument to that is that people will not feel like dealing with waits at the doctor, and thus not go until it becomes a problem. You can go back and forth with this arguments-


all i say is don't raise my taxes to a noticeable level and help out THOSE THAT NEED IT (not those that want to abuse the system) and don't decrease my quality of care when I need it (since I will still be using my privatized healthcare provider) and I will have no problem with this. I don't know if it will work out that well though...



^then you end up with examples of horrible schools and teachers and students alike who are just doing enough to get buy, ultimately wasting tax payer money for the majority of the students who just don't give a fuck-

i still say healthy and smart citizens are good for a government and society as a whole- but at what cost? start taking away peoples money and they are going to stop feeling so benevolent towards others and start worrying about their own ass

[Edited on March 22, 2010 at 6:46 PM. Reason : deveve]

3/22/2010 6:43:35 PM

Quote :

"Is the government going to start running hospitals? Or will hospitals still be run the same way they have always been run? (These are for real questions, not trying to play devils advocate or anything, I am really curious about this)"

The public option was removed, so while some people disagree on how well a government run option would have been, there is no government run option now. Even the government option wasn't a take over, it was only one option among the private option, and its not even there. So this is far from a take over.

There are however incentives for more use of preventative health and less waiting until problems balloon up & having to use the ER which costs us all more in the long run. There are some fairness issues like domestic violence is no longer being a pre-existing condition and other female biology specific issues that are no longer pre-existing conditions. There are regulations that aim to fight the current practice of insurance companies dropping clients for phony reasons whenever they found out paying for their needed services will cost the money (which kind of defeated the point of having for those ppl w/ insurance). And more small children, as well as young adults will get covered. If you can stay on your 'rents insurance til 26, then you can stay covered between high school & a first job, or college and a first job, or after college for a while if you're having trouble finding a job, or while you're waiting on the probationary period on the job to kick in.

3/22/2010 6:46:50 PM

Yeah I could see how that could become a problem...but I think it could free up the ERs for more serious issues. Like people who come in with possible broken collar bones don't have to sit around in pain and wait for the people with flus to go through.

3/22/2010 6:47:25 PM

Oh Lord...someone just said that freeing up space in the ER will make it easier for druggies to abuse drugs because they won't have to wait as long to make up a bogus injury to get the drugs

3/22/2010 6:52:23 PM

there are a lot of good arguments against this bill



but there are just as many abominable arguments that embarass me for not supporting this, which people seriously believe

3/22/2010 6:54:45 PM

that's kinda how I look at it...

I mean of course there are things on this bill that not everyone is going to agree on...and no one likes having to pay higher taxes...but some of the arguments people make against it (that they actually believe) are just crazy.

I mean making the argument that his health bill is crap because now druggies will have it easier trying to get meds to abuse?
To me that is just someone completely ignoring reason and talking from their ass.

But what do I know...her family owned company is a gyno office...she knows all about what is going on in the medical field.

3/22/2010 6:58:15 PM

On a separate note our GOP Senator Richard Burr, who has sent the last 16 years in Washington, has voted in efforts unrelated to this bill for domestic violence to count as a pre-existing condition and separately against an anti-rape amendment.

More on the vote against the anti-rape amendment:


For all the hoopla, the dems aren't out to kill grandma or create death panels or inflict communism on us all. This reform effort doesn't move us even to a system like much of europe or canada has. It is much closer to the one that the Republican Governor Mitt Romney came up with for his state than anything of the hype.

In the end it was the far left side of the democratic party (kuccinich & his supporters who wanted a public option) and the far right side of the democratic party (stupak & his gang of 12) who object. It was the fringes not the middle. Obama gave Kuccinich some extra publicity by flying out there, rallying his constituents, to bring him on board with a health care bill that was too conservative for him, and he did the executive order saying abortion law will stay the same which brought Stupak and many of his followers in on a bill that they thought was a little too far left. It was middle of the road stuff for the democratic party anyways.

3/22/2010 7:02:23 PM