So I have an assignment for tomorrow where I have to talk about a recent article in the news that has to do with genetics. Well, I found a great topic (it's about IVF, so not directly about genetics per say, but PGD is tightly associated with IVF and always brought up) and article to go with it, but there's only one comment posted. The comments are some of the best parts to hear when we have these discussions, so basically, I'm asking you guys to read this short article and tell me what you think.

Ultimately, I'm mainly wondering how people feel regarding the regulations of IVF/PGD and the endangerment factor of Octomom's situation. But, feel free to say whatever you want about this!

'Octomom' doctor faces review board: Endangerment cited in hearing on fertility treatment

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2010/oct/18/octomom-doctor-faces-review-board/?page=1


PS - I posted this in Chit Chat so it would get more traffic, but also because I want uninhibited opinions on the topic. Also, no one's comments will be used in my report so it's not like you're doing my homework for me.

10/19/2010 11:32:26 PM

I have nothing, but I'm pretty sure Octomom is some slutty bartender now.

10/19/2010 11:33:34 PM

Octopi children ITT.

10/19/2010 11:34:29 PM

I guess I should post a synopsis to help entice people to participate:

It has come out that the doctor actually implanted twelve embryos... The recommended amount per round of IVF is two.

10/19/2010 11:35:32 PM

I wonder... Maybe his motivation was to make her miscarry or kill her. 12 seems like a ridiculously high number.

[Edited on October 19, 2010 at 11:38 PM. Reason : Or maybe he's a mad scientist.]

10/19/2010 11:38:33 PM

10/19/2010 11:42:17 PM

I think IVF is really cool...for people who actually need it. Couples who cannot get pregnant any other way.

I think it's horrible that that bitch was even considered for IVF when she already had a litter of kids at home. I think the doctor was just trying to make a buck. I feel bad for the kids.

10/19/2010 11:57:39 PM

Quote :

"100% MEDICALLY ACCURATE"

10/20/2010 12:04:02 AM

i read it - i don't know what type of comments you are looking for so i will just go on a petite rant

i am not into IVF personally...if i were in a situation where i couldn't have kids, i'd adopt. to me it seems like wanting to be a parent v. wanting to reproduce. if you REALLY want to be a parent then i feel like you'd be a parent to any child that came into your life. the IVF stuff just seems like a crazy desire to reproduce and have your "OWN" offspring. but there is just something about IVF that has always rubbed me the wrong way (and it is clearly hard for me to articulate), i'm just not into it and i think the people who are have the potential to be a little off (but i mean, so does everyone i guess). like they are SO desperate for something with their own genetics when there are tons of adoptable children (AND BABIES) out there. i think its weird, but that is just me. i feel like i'm probably in the minority on this point, but oh well. i guess for people who really need it, the technology is good. but i've just never been a fan.

the octomom psychobitch i *HOPE* is a rare instance. but i mean, i think that duggar woman is almost as psycho and she has babies the old fashioned way. what i don't get is WTF the doctor was thinking. who cares if she had 6 kids already or 1 kid...bitch seemed to be showing signs that she SHOULDN'T have more kids (unemployment? foodstamps?). i mean how fucked up are these kids - ALL OF THEM - going to be now? probably pretty fucked up. this woman is/was an unfit mother and if she didn't show signs of that to doctor whats his face then maybe there should be a more comprehensive psych evaluation done on potential IVF candidates. or some sort of standard. i guess it is weird because you can't tell a "regular" family that is poor that they can't reproduce, but still...it just seems like the procedure never should have been allowed to be preformed on her.

but that is just my opinion, not knowing much about anything

[Edited on October 20, 2010 at 12:40 AM. Reason : .]

10/20/2010 12:39:40 AM

No that's awesome, thanks

Y'all should post more heated comments like kadwackle (or indifferent ones, whatev)

10/20/2010 12:44:40 AM

10/20/2010 12:50:42 AM

^^^I totally get where you are coming from with that there are plenty of adoptable babies out there...

I know that I am probably going to face fertility problems when I have children. For me that is heartbreaking. Basically it's the selfish part of me that wants to be pregnant and wants to know my child from conception. I also want to look at my child and see a little part of me or their daddy in them. I want my child to have the same ancestors as I do. I recognize that as selfish, but I think we all can be selfish every now and then.

That being said with IVF expecting multiples is not uncommon from what I understand...however I do understand that it is uncommon to get more than two or three.

But personally. I feel that if you can support your children, and not have to rely on the government for help feeding them, or taking care of them, then you can have as many children as your want.
I also feel however, it isn't a great idea to have too many children. Because really, how well can you give each child the love and attention they both need and deserve.
I also think it's very reckless to try to have a litter of children. Because if you are pregnant with too many it's better for all the children if you termiate one or more of the babies, but then how do you decide. How can you pick which child you don't want. And then when you can't pick and you decide to keep all of them, you risk so much. You risk premature births. Eye problems, lung problems, brain problems, heart problems. So many problems you can have from having too many children at once.

IVF is not something that should be taken lightly. It is not something to do to get a TV show. It is not something you do because you can't find a man to knock you up. IVF is something you do when you and your spouse have done everything else to try for a baby.

[Edited on October 20, 2010 at 1:00 AM. Reason : ]

10/20/2010 1:00:30 AM

wow, I never knew people had problems with IVF.

10/20/2010 1:38:32 AM

Quote :

" New User 1ba30 says: 1 minute ago Mark as offensive He should have his license revoked. There was no way he was looking out for the patient's health when he put that many embryos in her. I just hope this case of a psycho woman and a negligent doctor has paved the way for the IVF field to be scrutinized much more closely. "

10/20/2010 1:39:08 AM

^^^^

if i saw that happening at the beach I was on...

10/20/2010 1:43:11 AM

Stemming from kadwackle and sawahash's statements, how does everyone feel about the thought of using IVF only to pass on your genetics?

(not saying that was y'alls opinion in a nut shell, but it was an interesting point brought up)

10/20/2010 8:35:09 AM

So people on here will get into pages and pages of arguments regarding weed, tipping, etc... but not something like IVF that's controversial and might be used by people on this site in the future

Go figure

10/20/2010 1:35:42 PM

IVF is boring

10/20/2010 1:45:48 PM

^^^sam, do you mean using IVF as opposed to adoption?

10/20/2010 1:57:43 PM

Sure, or even how people feel about PDG (preimplantation diagnosis)

I'm just trying to spark discussion and it's annoying that at the slightest mention of "weed is bad, mmkay" people on tdub flip out and argue for pages and pages.. but with an actually interesting controversial issue that could affect some users in the future, most are all "meh"

10/20/2010 2:00:02 PM

I guess both are highly accepted by society.

I have never had a problem with them.

10/20/2010 2:07:56 PM

well apparently he isn't having the hearing just for his conduct in the suleman affair but two others as well. http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2010/10/witness-testifies-octomom-fertility-doctor-tried-to-mend-his-ways.html one of them had ovarian cancer!

10/20/2010 2:18:21 PM

If I were in the situation where I had to choose between pursuing IVF or pursuing adoption, I would lean toward IVF first. Like sawahash said, I have a strong desire to have children in which I can see myself and my mate. I would also want to be able to breast feed. Apparently adoptive mothers are encouraged to induce lactation (I do not have sources on that beyond a friend of mine being a leader in the breast feeding industry) but I do not like the thought of having to take drugs to make it happen.

I recognize that I would in no way love my children less if they were adopted (I was adopted) but there are certain bonds that aren't there in adopted children.

I hadn't heard much about PDG before, so I'm working off skimming the top section of the Wikipedia page, but it seems, to me, like if you are already doing IVF and you have the ability to screen for potential problems, it would be a good idea. Of course, I have no idea how many of the embryos are discarded because of "potential problems" and if it's the majority and the reality of the situation is that most of the ones with that label turn out just fine, then I wouldn't support it as much. I don't think you should screen for gender or hair color or things like that, but I don't think that falls under PDG.

10/20/2010 2:21:24 PM

i don't know anything about PDG, so i won't comment on that

i have friends who had a child through IVF, though it was a very difficult/expensive process. i think the first time they tried it didn't take, whatever that means. the mother was interested in adoption but her husband said absolutely not, because he was not interested in "loving" a child that was not "his". i've met other couples where the husband has expressed the same sentiments, despite the wife experiencing multiple miscarriages in attempts to get pregnant. i was/am actually extremely offended by this, as i was adopted, and the 2nd scenario involves a very close family member. i am very close to all my family, nuclear and extended, and most of them have forgotten i was even adopted.

another reason i think couples pursue IVF rather than adoption, is that it is VERY hard to adopt children. many adoption agencies are christian-oriented and have very strict guidelines for who they will allow to adopt children, which is kind of bullshit in my opinion, so getting pregnant is an "easier" route.

[Edited on October 20, 2010 at 2:33 PM. Reason : ]

10/20/2010 2:29:24 PM

Oh that's the other thing I wanted to mention. I know IVF is $$, but adoption is not cheap either. I have no idea how the costs compare, but I am curious now.

And also what ^ just said kind of hits home. My parents didn't have to go through the adoption process (long story how that was avoided), but evidently my biological parents exhibited some religious prejudices in who was able to adopt their child, and I imagine I could easily run into problems there.

10/20/2010 2:34:36 PM

my parents also went through alternative (? i guess?) ways of adopting so it wasn't the same process as many people i know of have gone through. still, not exactly easy. i always used to think they "bought" me because my mom's tummy was "broken"

cute story: my parents have always been up front about the adoption for as long as i can remember. my mom was talking to me about it one time when i was young (maybe 4?) and telling me that although i didn't grow in her tummy, i grew in her heart (cheesy!). i looked her dead in the eyes and said, "mom, babies DO NOT grow in hearts!"

[Edited on October 20, 2010 at 2:38 PM. Reason : ]

10/20/2010 2:36:59 PM

I just tell people I was stolen. It's not really stretching the truth that much.

10/20/2010 2:38:38 PM

sometimes i tell people my mother was a colombian crack whore and she escaped to florida where she could find a better life for me. the colombian part is true. if i ever meet her i will probably feel bad for telling drunken lies.

10/20/2010 2:40:11 PM

Quote :

"Oh that's the other thing I wanted to mention. I know IVF is $$, but adoption is not cheap either. I have no idea how the costs compare, but I am curious now. "

I'm curious too.

I know if I was faced with not being able to conceive naturally, I would be open to both options. Adoption can take a very long time and can be very emotional but so can IVF. I know families who wanted to adopt a child from a mother, went through all the paperwork, was there helping the mom out with medical bills and there for the birth of the baby, but unfortunately the bio mom lived in a state where she could change her mind up to 72 hours after giving birth and the she decided to keep the baby at the last minute. It's the same thing with IVF though - you go through rounds of hormones, treatments, implantations, hoping that this will be "it" and you're taking the same risk as adoption.

I've had friends who were unsuccessful in conceiving on their own, tried IVF and still couldn't get pregnant, then went on the adoption list, and also got certified to be foster parents. That's how bad they want to be parents.

I think with the whole Octo-mom thing, her doctor should lose his license. He was merely using her a science experiment and wanted to see how far he could take it. He took a woman who clearly is in not in the right mind to be having as many kids as she did all to have his name in the papers. It was a very dangerous thing - what if all 12 embryos took?!?!?!? Can you imagine?

I also know though with other reality TLC stars (Jon and Kate plus 8, that couple in Texas with the quints, the hispanic couple in NYC with the 5 or 6 babies) that all have the multiples - I believe they were implanted with more than just a few eggs. I think Kate Gosselin was implanted with 6 or 7 if I'm not mistaken and one didn't make it but the rest took. You have to kind of wonder what's going on behind the scenes and if this is becoming a more of a reccuring thing than we all think.

Personally, I'm open all options. I want to eventually be a mother and have a child and whether I do it naturally, with drugs, with the help of a surrogate, or with the help of a mother who cannot care for her own child, I'll do what it takes. But to each is own.

Quote :

"cute story: my parents have always been up front about the adoption for as long as i can remember. my mom was talking to me about it one time when i was young (maybe 4?) and telling me that although i didn't grow in her tummy, i grew in her heart (cheesy!). i looked her dead in the eyes and said, "mom, babies DO NOT grow in hearts!" "

that is TOO cute.

[Edited on October 20, 2010 at 2:47 PM. Reason : edit]

10/20/2010 2:45:23 PM

thanks guys just shared your view on PGD, skwink

but

Quote :

"I don't think you should screen for gender or hair color or things like that, but I don't think that falls under PDG."

Sadly, some doctors do this (and advertise for it)

[Edited on October 20, 2010 at 2:54 PM. Reason : ps, sorry, I typed wrong earlier... PGD, for preimplantation genetic diagnosis]

10/20/2010 2:53:10 PM

I was wondering why it would be PDG rather than PGD, but you're the expert here so I went with it

Non-medical trait screening still counts under PGD then? I knew it happened, but wasn't sure if it was under the same term. Not in favor of that.

10/20/2010 3:00:42 PM

that's definitely a slippery slope. it's like "playing god", but then again, i guess IVF is too

10/20/2010 3:03:39 PM

the genes for hair are too complicated to pick, so you can't really pick hair or eye color.
you can pick gender, but most people don't, unless they have a serious preference.

mostly it is done for known medical problems that you can find in DNA.

10/20/2010 3:04:32 PM

You're right about the hair and eye color (even though doctors still advertise it), but many patients choose the gender. "Family balancing" is becoming more and more popular. Also, besides screening embryos for a known genetic issue the parent(s) have, they also screen for chromosomal anomalies.

10/20/2010 4:30:07 PM

[insertthatprofessorthatcameontdubandbustedthatstudentfortryingtogetanswersforhishomework]

10/20/2010 4:33:46 PM

These weren't answers for my homework at all, actually.

In fact, my prof liked that I went out and made an effort to find out more public opinions.

10/20/2010 4:36:00 PM

I realize it isn't too possible at the moment, but with the way science advances it seems like the odds are good that it will be within our lifetimes. And given that people seem to have few qualms about sex selection, it will probably catch on too, if it stays legal. I don't think it will be too long before people can say, "I want a tall, blond kid with green eyes who is good at sports and math."

Or maybe that's like a flying car and is something that just seems like it isn't too far away but actually will never happen. I remember hearing about that type of selection when I was younger, though. It was probably in my early teens. I remember thinking it would be nice to be able to make sure I got a boy and a girl. Now I'm embarrassed that I thought that way.

10/20/2010 4:36:11 PM

sheesh bitch chill the fuck out

10/20/2010 4:36:53 PM

Oh Swink, people are already walking into clinics and saying that. I mean, there are some markers that could suggest for certain traits (like eye/hair color) but as far as anything definite, it's not possible atm. But with PGD, they typically make a karyotype to check for the chromosomal anomalies and it shows the baby's sex, so the couple has that option immediately put out there


LOL at me being told to chill... yet you're the one resorting to name calling

10/20/2010 4:46:19 PM

i posted that more as an attempt to get that profs name

because this thread REMINDED me of that situation

damn, can we truce??

10/20/2010 4:47:26 PM